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RE: Organising Requirements

From: Tandy, Jeremy <jeremy.tandy@metoffice.gov.uk>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:20:13 +0000
To: Jeni Tennison <jeni@jenitennison.com>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
CC: W3C CSV on the Web Working Group <public-csv-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <2624871D9A05174691BD59F8EFD68AE2B359FF@EXXCMPD1DAG3.cmpd1.metoffice.gov.uk>
Thanks - I've added an ISSUE to the document to that effect. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeni Tennison [mailto:jeni@jenitennison.com] 
Sent: 24 February 2014 17:16
To: Ivan Herman; Tandy, Jeremy
Cc: W3C CSV on the Web Working Group
Subject: Re: Organising Requirements

Right: we still need to capture the semantic requirements. I don’t think we need to change either of the quotes that you (Jeremy) brought out. My remark was purely about the description of the "R-PackagingOfMultipleTables” requirement which is phrased as a requirement for packaging rather than as a requirement for grouping tables so that annotations can be assigned to the group, which is what I think it really is.

Jeni

------------------------------------------------------
From: Ivan Herman ivan@w3.org
Reply: Ivan Herman ivan@w3.org
Date: 24 February 2014 at 11:31:34
To: Tandy, Jeremy jeremy.tandy@metoffice.gov.uk
Subject:  Re: Organising Requirements

>  
> As far as I am concerned: yes. The question is whether these cases 
> (which are obviously real) are also present in published CSV files. If 
> they are (eg, if the Statistics guys indeed publish their data in CSV 
> 'verbatim' from those Excel sheets) then of course it is an issue for 
> us. But if they are, hm, smart enough to publish CSV that, for 
> example, does not contain the presentation artifacts, then we can 
> safely ignore those cases...
>  
> Of course... there is a remark somewhere on the use case wiki page 
> that says that data publishers may _not_ want to publish CSV because 
> those very artifacts are not available, then that is of course an 
> issue for us, too. That may be the case of your first example below...
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> Ivan
>  
> On 24 Feb 2014, at 10:35 , Tandy, Jeremy
> wrote:
>  
> > Point accepted.
> >
> > I think that there are two areas of the Publication of National
> Statistics use case
> to modify:
> >
> > 1) "Several tables may appear within a single sheet; for example,
> refer to labour market statistics sheet 18(1). Here we see statistics 
> relating to headline estimates, change on quarter and change on year. 
> A closer inspection indicates that the column layout is identical for 
> each sub-table; only the meaning of the data values changes."
> >
> > 2) "The layout of tabular data within each sheet is optimised
> for human consumption. Presentation artifacts are typically 
> intermingled with the data itself making it difficult for data reusers 
> to extract data from these tables for further processing.
> Presentation artifacts, some of which are illustrated in figure Fig. 1 
> Presentation artifacts in statistics worksheet, include:"
> [etc.]
> >
> > Can you confirm that I've interpreted your concerns correctly?  
> >
> > Thanks, Jeremy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ivan Herman [mailto:ivan@w3.org]
> > Sent: 24 February 2014 08:37
> > To: Jeni Tennison
> > Cc: Tandy, Jeremy; W3C CSV on the Web Working Group
> > Subject: Re: Organising Requirements
> >
> >
> > On 23 Feb 2014, at 22:03 , Jeni Tennison
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Jeremy,
> >>
> >> Thanks for all your work pulling together the use cases and
> requirements.
> >>
> >> Do you think it would be useful to cluster the requirements?  
> Looking at them, I can see:
> >>
> >> * Parsing, eg requirements around recognising other delimiters
> >> * Annotation Types, eg R-PrimaryKey
> >> * Metadata Discovery, eg R-PackagingOfMultipleTables
> >> * Applications, eg R-CsvValidation
> >> * Non-Functional, eg R-ZeroEditCompatibility
> >>
> >> Regarding the requirement R-PackagingOfMultipleTables,
> I think the requirement is to annotate a group of tables, not 
> necessarily to package them. In other words, a design in which there 
> was a metadata file that pointed to a group of tables hosted elsewhere 
> on the web would seem to satisfy the requirement from PublicationOfNationalStatistics:
> they wouldn't necessarily need to be packaged together (eg in a zip).
> >>
> >> Also, FWIW, I would only take syntactic requirements from
> published "CSVs", not from non-text-based formats like Excel.  
> So, for example, I wouldn't use the ONS Excel files as demonstrating a 
> requirement to have multiple tables within a single CSV file.
> >
> > +1
> >
> > We would open the flood gates if we took the original spreadsheet
> (and other) programs into account...
> >
> > Ivan
> >
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Jeni
> >> --
> >> Jeni Tennison
> >> http://www.jenitennison.com/

> >>
> >
> >
> > ----
> > Ivan Herman, W3C
> > Digital Publishing Activity Lead
> > Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/

> > mobile: +31-641044153
> > GPG: 0x343F1A3D
> > FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf

> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>  
>  
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/

> mobile: +31-641044153
> GPG: 0x343F1A3D
> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf

>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> - signature.asc, 210 bytes

--
Jeni Tennison
http://www.jenitennison.com/

Received on Monday, 24 February 2014 17:20:42 UTC

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