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Re: [Minutes] 2014-04-09 (NB No meeting next week 16th)

From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 14:31:08 +0100
Message-ID: <53454B9C.8040003@w3.org>
To: Yakov Shafranovich <yakov-ietf@shaftek.org>
CC: Public CSVW WG <public-csv-wg@w3.org>
Ah, I think you may have been caught by the change to summer time in Europe.

Times for this WG are fixed at 13:00 London time, i.e. the next meeting is
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=CSVW+WG&iso=20140423T13&p1=136

Phil.

On 09/04/2014 14:09, Yakov Shafranovich wrote:
> I think I am confused about the times. What time of the date are phone
> conferences scheduled for?
>
> Yakov
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Phil Archer <phila@w3.org> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> The minutes of today's meeting are at
>> http://www.w3.org/2014/04/09-csvw-minutes.html.
>>
>> Note that the WG will skip next week's meeting so that the next one is on
>> Wednesday 23rd April.
>>
>> A snapshot of today's minutes are below.
>>
>>
>>                CSV on the Web Working Group Teleconference
>>
>> 09 Apr 2014
>>
>>     See also: [2]IRC log
>>
>>        [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/09-csvw-irc
>>
>> Attendees
>>
>>     Present
>>            AndyS, fresco, +1.937.207.aaaa, phila, JeniT, MathewT,
>>            DavideCeolin, danbri, +44.777.586.aabb, jtandy
>>
>>     Regrets
>>            Axel, Stasinos, Alfonso
>>
>>     Chair
>>            Jeni
>>
>>     Scribe
>>            Andy Seaborne
>>
>> Contents
>>
>>       * [3]Topics
>>           1. [4]UCR
>>           2. [5]Conversion
>>           3. [6]Model for tabular data
>>       * [7]Summary of Action Items
>>       __________________________________________________________
>>
>>     <trackbot> Date: 09 April 2014
>>
>>     <scribe> scribe: Andy Seaborne
>>
>>     <scribe> scribenick: AndyS
>>
>>     <danbri> thanks AndyS!
>>
>>     AndyS: Regrets for next week.
>>
>>     <JeniT> JeniT: Regrets for next week
>>
>>     <JeniT> [8]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/02-csvw-minutes.html
>>
>>        [8] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/02-csvw-minutes.html
>>
>>     <danbri> looks good
>>
>>     AndyS: Not all actions recorded in the tracker
>>
>>     <danbri> 3 of them are for me; i'll make todos directly.
>>
>>     APPROVED: Minutes
>>     [9]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/02-csvw-minutes.html
>>
>>        [9] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/02-csvw-minutes.html
>>
>> UCR
>>
>>     Davide: will sync with jeremy
>>
>>     phila: making progress on my action for a UC
>>
>>     <phila> ACTION: phila to add use case linking from metadata to
>>     the data [recorded in
>>     [10]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/09-csvw-minutes.html#action01]
>>
>>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-12 - to add use case linking from
>>     metadata to the data [on Phil Archer - due 2014-04-16].
>>
>>     <danbri> (phil's action was on me last week as "chase phila for
>>     his usecase in which a party provides metadata for another's
>>     csv"; I declare my work done)
>>
>> Conversion
>>
>>     [11]http://w3c.github.io/csvw/csv2rdf/
>>
>>       [11] http://w3c.github.io/csvw/csv2rdf/
>>
>>     <JeniT> AndyS: we had a telcon yesterday
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... including jtandy, Gregg, Juan
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... we're looking at processing from CSV to CSV to
>>     clean up the general data
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... eg fixing up new lines, delimiters, date formats
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... thought better to do that as rewriting CSV
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... then convert clean CSV to RDF/JSON/XML
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... R2RML is the nuclear option for complicated
>>     transforms
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... we didn't push on the boundaries around that
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... similarly might want to do RDF-to-RDF or
>>     JSON-to-JSON transforms after conversion
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... we don't want to repeat work done elsewhere, or add
>>     more tools to end users' toolchain
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... we discussed on what's published
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... there's CSVs published as the outcome of a longer
>>     process
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... shared schemas, shared transformations, custom
>>     mappings
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... at scale & in volume; sharing parts of the files is
>>     beneficial
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... vs someone taking CSV from data.gov.uk
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... and adding their own transform
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... they need something more self-contained
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... a single file to control the transformation
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... also whether the CSV was created without the web in
>>     mind, or with the web in mind
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... particularly with spotting links & data formats
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... Gregg is going to look at pulling out his transform
>>     description to apply it independently of JSON-LD
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... we're hopeful that there will be commonality in
>>     conversion to JSON
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... which kind of depends on whether the conversion is
>>     to JSON-LD
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... had a good chat with Ivan when we met up
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... comments on what's been written would be great
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... it's a bit scruffy, but the general approach is
>>     there
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... I'm using the term 'basic mapping' rather than
>>     'direct mapping'
>>
>>     <danbri> 'simple mapping'?
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... there's a progression of complexity
>>
>>     <danbri> 'wishfulthinking mapping'
>>
>>     <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask status of test case csvs for
>>     this exploration
>>
>>     <JeniT> danbri: are there test files?
>>
>>     <JeniT> AndyS: there's tests in the repo
>>
>>     <JeniT> danbri: are they mainstream examples or test cases?
>>
>>     <JeniT> AndyS: the test ones from gkellogg are focused
>>
>>     <JeniT> danbri: we'd like mainstream examples
>>
>>     <JeniT> AndyS: I've put some of those in the document
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... if you could work through one of the examples you
>>     want to put in, that would be great, like jtandy did
>>
>>     <danbri>
>>     [12]https://github.com/w3c/csvw/blob/gh-pages/examples/simple-w
>>     eather-observation.md
>>
>>       [12]
>> https://github.com/w3c/csvw/blob/gh-pages/examples/simple-weather-observation.md
>>
>>     JTandy: we also talked about was charter and metadata in RDF
>>     ... may be distinct from the mapping framing (not in RDF)
>>     ... want to test this with WG.
>>
>>     <JeniT> AndyS: yes, metadata about the CSV file may or may not
>>     be in RDF
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... it might be simpler to have one language that
>>     drives all the mappings
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... which might include provenance etc
>>
>>     <phila> from the charter "The vocabulary should be defined, or
>>     should have an encoding, in standard RDF and, wherever possible
>>     and appropriate, should refer to, and reuse, existing
>>     vocabularies developed elsewhere." - i.e. it doesn't have to
>>     *only* be in RDF
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... even in JSON-LD, the context part isn't RDF
>>
>>     <JeniT> jtandy: we talked about gkellogg pulling out the
>>     transformation stuff from JSON-LD to see if it could be
>>     expressed in Turtle
>>
>>     jeniT: easy to write might mean TTL
>>     ... want to see the things it will say to guide the syntax
>>     choice.
>>     ... separating CSV-specific xform from JSON-LD will be good.,
>>     ... nudged Rufus and Ross Jones re JSON.
>>
>>     <JeniT> [13]https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Conversions
>>
>>       [13] https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Conversions
>>
>>     <danbri> aside - another JSON-LD launch at google this week:
>>     [14]https://devsite.googleplex.com/webmasters/business-location
>>     -pages/schema.org-examples (i.e. we like JSON-LD)
>>
>>       [14]
>> https://devsite.googleplex.com/webmasters/business-location-pages/schema.org-examples
>>
>> Model for tabular data
>>
>>     jenit: e.g. import into relational DB
>>
>>     davide: may have some interesting data as example
>>
>>     <jtandy> danbri - that looks like an internal link (googleplex)
>>     ... just tried it :-)
>>
>>     subtopic: null fields
>>
>>     <JeniT>
>>     [15]http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/#core-tabular-data-model
>>
>>       [15] http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/#core-tabular-data-model
>>
>>     jenit: "What is a null field" comment from D Booth
>>     ... absent and empty : same? different?
>>
>>     jtandy: in the discussion, defaults value need to be handled.
>>
>>     <danbri> lost audio
>>
>>     jtandy: empty field returned. Have a explicit "null" marker
>>     (999, whatever)
>>
>>     subtopic: packaging
>>
>>     <JeniT> [16]http://w3ctag.github.io/packaging-on-the-web/
>>
>>       [16] http://w3ctag.github.io/packaging-on-the-web/
>>
>>     jenit: TAG work
>>
>>     <jtandy> the "999" marker would be declared in the metadata
>>     annotation as a token indicating a "null field" / missing field
>>
>>     jenit: need arises in various places
>>     ... general need for web development
>>     ... we need to do similar - CSV(s) and metadata
>>
>>     <JeniT>
>>     [17]http://w3ctag.github.io/packaging-on-the-web/#downloading-d
>>     ata-for-local-processing
>>
>>       [17]
>> http://w3ctag.github.io/packaging-on-the-web/#downloading-data-for-local-processing
>>
>>     jenit: link to draft of the TAG direction with a specific
>>     example for this WG
>>     ... individual file are still on the web
>>     ... but that a "package fetch" pulls them all at once.
>>     ... individual files LInk back to their metadata
>>     ... streamable proposed based on multi-part
>>     ... comments invited
>>
>>     <jtandy> ok - packaging stuff looks interesting
>>
>>     <phila> no questions but it's interesting, thank you
>>
>>     danbri: Other groups feedback?
>>
>>     jenit: no HTTP changes
>>
>>     danbri: what about HTTP layer optimizations? e.g. caching
>>
>>     jenit: overlap with HTTP/2
>>     ... would need packaging aware caching to cache sub parts but
>>     format allows cache header per part
>>     ... will write to the list
>>
>>     subtopic: metadata packaging
>>     ... metadata format
>>
>>     jenit: hold back until we know what's in it
>>
>>     jtandy: been looking at "Simple Data Packaging" (now renamed)
>>     looks very close
>>     ... start from that?
>>
>>     jenit: Would be good to start from there - except it assumes
>>     JSON.
>>
>>     jtandy: start with the JSON assumption and see how it is
>>     received on WD
>>
>>     <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to say start from SDP as a
>>     *vocabulary* is fine, but something that fits with RDF is also
>>     important
>>
>>     danbri: schema.org ==> vocabulary start good, but syntax of
>>     JSON only might be a barrier.
>>
>>     <jtandy> +1 to taking SDP metadata and expressing in RDF over
>>     JSON-LD
>>
>>     phila: Uncomfortable if excludes the dataprotocols work when it
>>     need not.
>>     ... significant community
>>     ... at least add conversions to/from.
>>
>>     <JeniT> AndyS: I think there was something that said the data
>>     package might become JSON-LD
>>
>>     <danbri> i can't find a good link for SDF, was it renamed?
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... I'd like to get a sense of how successful that
>>     format has been
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... and if there are any others
>>
>>     <danbri> [18]http://dataprotocols.org/tabular-data-package/
>>
>>       [18] http://dataprotocols.org/tabular-data-package/
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... I thought it was a good starting point, but I
>>     realised I didn't know what the reception had been
>>
>>     jenai: DSPL alternative
>>
>>     jenit: DSPL alternative
>>
>>     <danbri> DSPL is [19]https://developers.google.com/public-data/
>>     ; Omar I mentioned earlier was working to migrate this to
>>     schema.org / RDF / JSON world
>>
>>       [19] https://developers.google.com/public-data/
>>
>>     <danbri> [20]https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/LookInside
>>
>>       [20] https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/LookInside
>>
>>     jenit: used the format in our (ODI) tools
>>     ... and providing feedback (ldodds)
>>     ... would they contrib a draft?
>>
>>     phila: Rufus is IE in this WG because it helps align the work.
>>     ... this WG will likely go beyond that work as extensions.
>>     Maybe WG NOTE for existing work.
>>
>>     <danbri> I'd suggest we take it as expressivity requirements
>>     and we 'should' at least have a clear mapping
>>
>>     jenit: will contact Rufus
>>     ... can we take into account data package work?
>>
>>     <JeniT> ... in the conversions
>>
>>     <JeniT> [21]http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/#package
>>
>>       [21] http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/#package
>>
>>     jenit: AOB?
>>
>>     jtandy: timescales?
>>     ... next publication esp UCR doc?
>>
>>     phila: no lower limit on repub cycle
>>
>>     jtandy: Happen to move forward in May
>>
>>     <jtandy> s /Happen/Happy/
>>
>>     jenit: UCR will remain "open" to capture new discoveries.
>>
>>     jtandy: requirements are placeholders, more categorization and
>>     "accept" requirements
>>
>>     jenit: aim of mid May with more UCs.
>>     ... ??
>>     ... after Easter , process to accept requirements.
>>
>>     danbri: propose skip next week
>>
>>     <jtandy> +1 to skip
>>
>>     danbri to chair next time, 2 weeks time. Wed after Easter.
>>
>>     ADJOURNED
>>
>>     <phila> DNM 23 April
>>
>

-- 


Phil Archer
W3C Data Activity Lead
http://www.w3.org/2013/data/

http://philarcher.org
+44 (0)7887 767755
@philarcher1
Received on Wednesday, 9 April 2014 13:31:42 UTC

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