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Re: [RC6] list-style-013, list-style-014 and list-style-015 invalid, incorrect (issue 94)

From: Gérard Talbot <css21testsuite@gtalbot.org>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 09:26:05 -0700
Message-ID: <219196eb3b74e688c6b520c212c02a8e.squirrel@cp3.shieldhost.com>
To: "Øyvind Stenhaug" <oyvinds@opera.com>
Cc: "Public CSS test suite mailing list" <public-css-testsuite@w3.org>, "Arron Eicholz" <arron.eicholz@microsoft.com>

Le Lun 11 avril 2011 7:39, "Gérard Talbot" a écrit :
>
> Le Lun 11 avril 2011 7:11, Øyvind Stenhaug a écrit :
>> On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:32:49 +0200, Gérard Talbot
>> <css21testsuite@gtalbot.org> wrote:
>>
>>>> "
>>>> A value of 'none' within the 'list-style' property sets whichever of
>>>> 'list-style-type' and 'list-style-image' are not otherwise specified
>>>> to
>>>> 'none'. However, if both are otherwise specified, the declaration is
>>>> in
>>>> error (and thus ignored).
>>>> "
>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#lists
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, in list-style-013
>>>>
>>>>             div
>>>>             {
>>>>                 display: list-item;
>>>>                 list-style: inside none square;
>>>>             }
>>>>
>>>> should have
>>>> list-style: inside none square;
>>>> ignored. And only
>>>> display: list-item;
>>>> should be valid. So, the expected result for that list-style-013
>>>> testcase should be an outside list-marker bullet (filled disc).
>>
>> No, the declaration is not an error, since 'list-style-image' is not
>> "otherwise specified". It is equivalent to
>>
>> list-style-position: inside;
>> list-style-image: none;
>> list-style-type: square;
>>
>>> Right now, Firefox 3.6.16, Firefox 4.0, Opera 11.01, IE8 and
>>> Konqueror
>>> 4.6.1 fail those 3 tests.
>>> Chrome 10.0.648.204 and Safari 5.0.4 pass these 3 testcases with
>>> Chrome
>>> spotting and reporting the CSS parsing error.
>>
>> Chrome/Safari are the ones that fail according to the spec. Apparently
>> the
>> CSS validator has a bug too.
>>
>> --
>> Øyvind Stenhaug
>> Core Norway, Opera Software ASA
>>
>
>
> I read this sentence at least 20 times:
>
> "
> A value of 'none' within the 'list-style' property sets whichever of
> 'list-style-type' and 'list-style-image' are not otherwise specified
> to 'none'.
> "
>
> and I still think my interpretation of the verbatim here is correct.
> Either way, I know I am reporting an error somewhere: with the wording
> of the spec, with the validator and/or with the 3 testcases.
>

"otherwise" conjunction has the meaning of "if not" (alternative) in
many languages, including programming languages for forking or toggling
purposes. So, "not otherwise" may cause confusion, comprehension
difficulty.

The "not" in the sentence is supposed to be/aiming at negating
"specified" word.

The "whichever of" pronoun expression in my language implies a singular
form, not a plural form. The "whichever of" pronoun expression in the
sentence intented to mean "one of the two or both"; it is inclusive, not
exclusive. But that's not how "whichever of" is translated in my
language: "celui qui", "celui des", "quel que soit celui qui",
"n'importe lequel [des]". In my language, the "whichever" word is
exclusive (like an exclusive or), not inclusive.

Finally, the proposition ending with "sets" continues and ends with "to
'none'".

It really is a difficult sentence to grasp, interpret.

Re-reading it now, then breaking it up in 2 distinct propositions and
adding some changes (to make it more explicit, less prone to
interpretation) would read:

Prop 1:
A value of 'none' within the 'list-style' shorthand property sets to 'none'

Prop 2:
the sub-property 'list-style-type' if unspecified and the sub-property
'list-style-image' if unspecified.

Gérard
-- 
Contributions to the CSS 2.1 test suite:
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CSS 2.1 Test suite RC6, March 23rd 2011
http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/toc.html

CSS 2.1 test suite contributors:
http://test.csswg.org/source/contributors/
Received on Monday, 11 April 2011 16:26:36 GMT

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