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Re: [RC2] separated-borders-model-007

From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:45:58 -0700
Message-ID: <4CC27696.3080703@inkedblade.net>
To: Øyvind Stenhaug <oyvinds@opera.com>
CC: Gérard Talbot <css21testsuite@gtalbot.org>, "public-css-testsuite@w3.org" <public-css-testsuite@w3.org>
On 10/19/2010 06:48 AM, Øyvind Stenhaug wrote:
>
>> Why some of those visual UAs stop doing so as soon as 'border-collapse:
>> collapse' is set (at the user agent stylesheet level or at the author
>> style sheet level)?
> ...
> It does prevent row borders from having an effect, as mentioned in one
> of the bug reports you linked to ([3] comment 8).
> ...
>>>> The mapping of rules attribute to CSS is not specified explicitly in CSS
>>>> 2.1 spec... but that does not mean that an adequate, best mapping can
>>>> not be figured out after careful reading of involved specifications.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless it's one out of several possible options.
>>
>> After carefully reading the CSS 2.1 spec and the HTML 4 spec, I come up
>> with one option which fits, meets both specs. You seem to suggest that
>> there could be another one and because of such lenient
>> latitude/flexibility in HTML4, then it is sufficient reason/grounds to
>> invalidate my tescase.
>
> As a CSS2 conformance test, yes.
>...
>>> I assume the CSS
>>> 2.1 conformance test suite is supposed to test CSS 2.1 conformance
>>
>> I always have agreed to this.
>>
>>> not that the implementations do whatever we think makes the most sense.
>>
>> I have read your sentence many times and I do not agree with it. The
>> reading of the involved specifications is required; arbitrary preference
>> or thinking is not what I suggested or said or recommended.
>
> OK, maybe the reference further up (regarding row borders in the
> separated borders model) will clarify things.
>> ...
>> So, according to you, there should not be any border around the table
>> box in this testcase either:
>>
>> http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/css21testsuite/separated-borders-model-007-without.html
>
> Of course there should, you're setting it in the CSS (and author CSS
> overrides presentational hints).
> ...
>
> Now, one might argue whether this particular mapping makes the most
> sense or not, but there it is.
> ...
> By referring to the border-collapse:collapse rule as an implementation
> bug, you seemed to me to want rules="all" to render using the separated
> borders model, giving e.g. two separate lines between row 1 cell 1 and
> row 2 cell 1. Which none of the browsers I have here seems to do (and
> more importantly, isn't mandated by any of the specs I've seen).

Gérard, Øyvind is correct here. The test is out-of-scope for the CSS2.1
test suite. As he says, you can argue that there are better ways to
implement the HTML4 rule attribute, that are more resistant to CSS
tampering, but neither spec requires the behavior you are testing for.
And even if HTML4 required it, it would be an HTML4 test, not a CSS2.1
one.

~fantasai
Received on Saturday, 23 October 2010 05:46:38 GMT

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