- From: CSS Meeting Bot via GitHub <sysbot+gh@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:01:17 +0000
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The CSS Working Group just discussed `[css-page-3] Add orientation descriptor`. <details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary> <dael> Topic: [css-page-3] Add orientation descriptor<br> <dael> github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4491<br> <fantasai> Issue for use cases at https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4585<br> <dael> chrishtr: Way to rotate page w/o changing layout. Different rotation in PDF is the use case. Intended is to set rotate descriptor in PDF.<br> <dael> florian: Wouldn't do anything if print to actual paper?<br> <dael> chrishtr: Right<br> <dael> florian: Sure<br> <fremy> sounds useful<br> <dael> TabAtkins: Reasonable to me. Not sure if it's better to do explicit direction keywords or portait. Happy to advance<br> <dael> florian: Suspect picking direction is useful<br> <dael> chrishtr: I can imagine left or right depending on visual preference<br> <dael> florian: If you're not controlling...no, I guess MQ. If you don't decide if the whole should be portrait or landscape you can use MQ to decide a section<br> <dael> fantasai: I don't think prtrait vs landscape is sufficient b/c you might want to rotate +90 or -90. You want to rotate entire page<br> <dael> dbaron: This would be clearer with examples as to what is and isn't rotated<br> <dael> florian: No effect to layout, just set a flag in PDF<br> <dael> dbaron: Not just that. Could use examples saying this pair of size and oritentation should look like this. In terms of what PDF looks like vs page and content orientation<br> <dael> chrishtr: I can add example<br> <dael> AmeliaBR: Would be helpful. I think...visually for me is a PDF mostly portait and we want to display a page in landscape or is it that page is layout in landscape but display as portrait. Which cases?<br> <dael> fantasai: Things relevent here is reltationship of content to page box. Headers and footers to page box. Orientation of page box itself.<br> <dael> fantasai: I can interpret this is 2 ways. Only changes oritientation of page, but header is still at top or it layouts entire content incl. header and then rotates. I'm not sure about it.<br> <dael> florian: Some section sin landscape can handle with page sizing. Don't need something to change aspect ratio of some pages<br> <dael> AmeliaBR: But having headers match other pages is the missing<br> <fantasai> The landscape keyword on size doesn't affect orientation<br> <dael> florian: I thought it was print the 3rd page rotated 90deg. Examples would help<br> <fantasai> it's a shortcut for sizing<br> <dael> chrishtr: That's what I intended. Hand't thought detail on header/footer<br> <florian> s/print the 3rd page rotated 90deg/print normally, then physically rotate the 3rd piece of paper/<br> <dael> Rossen_: Intended for anything outside page. Could this be used in regular HTML? Thinking of ePub where people might want similar control. Why is this PDF specific?<br> <fantasai> Not PDF-specific, but @page specific<br> <dael> Rossen_: Kinda goes back to lack of examples. What is this intended to solve? I clearly hear PDF. I don't believe we want per page control. In summary it goes back to getting clearer examples in proposal<br> <myles> q+<br> <Rossen_> ack fantasai<br> <dael> fantasai: I want to clarify landscape keyword on size is just a shortcut to say I want 11x8.5. Please don't confuse orientation with that keyword.<br> <dael> fantasai: Second point, I think we want it to apply to more than PDFs. Proposal is descriptor on @page rule which talks about page box for paged media.<br> <dauwhe> q?<br> <dael> florian: I think it applies to most but not all paged media. Doesn't apply to paper b/c if you're printing to paper how you position the pages is out of our control. But if you're in a PDF that's different b/c renderer can decide how to layout pages.<br> <dael> fantasai: In terms of some pages oriented one way vs another we have a feature that allows us to assign content to different types of pages. This section is on legal where rest is on letter. An orientation descriptor lets you do somehting similar where this chapter is landscape. That falls from existing fucntionality<br> <dael> TabAtkins: It is appriclable to paper. Controlling which direction the landscape grapth is in a paper book is worthwhile. Printer will auto rotate but if you have it oriented you stick with that.<br> <dael> florian: I was thinking of home printer, but yes if you're binding that makes sense<br> <dael> myles: You guys said much of what I would say. We have a size descriptor already. If goal is to let your big table be printing on landscape you can do that. only value is what TabAtkins said where for printed context it tells the printer what to do. For PDF it's no effect b/c you can do the use case. Only way this makes sense if if it's no effect on PDFs<br> <Rossen_> ack myles<br> <dael> TabAtkins: Makes sense ofr PDF. If layout in landscape but want to display PDF as portrait you can do that<br> <dael> AmeliaBR: Overrides the default PDF view where if it's landscape it displays landscape. Forces to show in the printed book fasion<br> <dael> myles: Why would anyone want that?<br> <dael> TabAtkins: DnD books for example that have a wide table. Page is pointed vertically. Want to have PDF match look of book is reasonable<br> <dael> myles: Don't have have to turn your computer to read it?<br> <dael> TabAtkins: Sure<br> <dael> AmeliaBR: Other case of content in landscape but headers in portrain you can do with writing mode<br> <dael> florian: Can't do by page can you?<br> <dael> AmeliaBR: You can say this section has vertical writing mode and that effects content<br> <dael> TabAtkins: As we come to end of hour, seems like some disagreements about when applicable. Seems reasonable to do. Open question as to if it changes header position. Good to look at use cases to see which the use cases prefer. If it's mixed we can look at a switch<br> <dael> florian: So if page margin boxes areorthogonal to content<br> <dael> fantasai: yes<br> <dael> florian: Can't you do that with writing modes?<br> <dael> fantasai: Yes<br> <dael> Rossen_: chrishtr will you add the use cases? Or TabAtkins ?<br> <dael> TabAtkins: I volunteer chrishtr are tribute<br> <dael> fantasai: It's not just page margin boxes this effects Question is do we disassociate content from the concept of t/b/l/r from the page's concept or are we rotating the whole page? Does that oage's concept of t/b/l/r match the content's<br> <dael> TabAtkins: Don't think can lay out a top margin box that would layout as a tall skinny thing. Need to know if layout into tall skinny or squat wide.<br> <dael> fantasai: Separate thing<br> <dael> florian: My udnerstanding is it rotates the whole page. And then use writing modes etc to make changes<br> <dael> fantasai: Prop easiest<br> <astearns> s/are tribute/as tribute/<br> <fantasai> I think also we agree that 'orientation' should take 4 orientations, not just landscape/portrait<br> <dael> Rossen_: We're at the hour please add thoughts to the issue.<br> <dael> Rossen_: We've got 2 issues left that we'll start with next week<br> <fantasai> and probably should use syntax consistent with 'image-orientation' even though it's awkward<br> </details> -- GitHub Notification of comment by css-meeting-bot Please view or discuss this issue at https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4491#issuecomment-564662759 using your GitHub account
Received on Wednesday, 11 December 2019 18:01:19 UTC