Re: [MINUTES] W3C Credentials CG Call - 2018-07-24 12pm ET

Bad news folks. The audio did not survive. At first I suspected it was the
long amount of time in between the meeting and generating the minutes.
However, I confirmed the download script did yield a (wav) audio file of
roughly the expected size. It's just filled with mostly whitenoise-ish
audio except for a couple of the dialin sounds (buboop).

However, we do have the written logs, thanks to Lionel's amazing scribing.

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 7:24 PM <kim@learningmachine.com> wrote:

> Thanks to  for scribing this week! The minutes
> for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:
>
> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2018-07-24/
>
> Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
> Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2018-07-24
>
> Agenda:
>
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2018Jul/0047.html
> Topics:
>   1. Introductions
>   2. Agenda Review
>   3. Announcements & Reminders
>   4. Progress on Current Action Items
>   5. Work Items
>   6. Amira Use Case
> Action Items:
>   1. update work items with links to final artifacts
> Organizer:
>   Kim Hamilton Duffy and Christopher Allen and Joe Andrieu
> Scribe:
>
> Present:
>   Heather Vescent, Mike Lodder, Ryan Grant, Ganesh Annan, Andrew
>   Hughes, Christopher Allen, Dan Burnett, Richard A. Kraaijenhagen,
>   Kulpreet Singh, Jeff Orgel, Lionel Wolberger, Kim Hamilton Duffy,
>   Dave Longley, Manu Sporny, Chris Boscolo, Joe Kaplan, Joe
>   Andrieu, Jarlath O'Carroll, Moses Ma
> Audio:
>   https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2018-07-24/audio.ogg
>
>
> Topic: Introductions
>
> Hello all. Wolf McNally, via invite by Christopher Allen
> Joe Andrieu:
>
> https://github.com/WebOfTrustInfo/rebooting-the-web-of-trust-fall2017/blob/master/final-documents/amira.pdf
> Jeff Orgel: JeffO StL dial in 314 area code
>
> Topic: Agenda Review
>
> Lionel Wolberger: Agenda: Main focus today the Amria.pdf document
> Lionel Wolberger:  My name is Lionel Wolberger, I've been in the
>   CCG for a while. Via https://platin.io we're doing location
>   credentials and secure proofs in a decentralized manner. We want
>   to use VCs as a way for making those interoperable. [scribe
>   assist by Dave Longley]
> Lionel Wolberger: Lionel Wolberger re-introduced himself,
>   co-founder of https://platin.io
> Lionel Wolberger: Chris said, there are a wide variety of guests
>   present
>
> Topic: Announcements & Reminders
>
> Lionel Wolberger: Opening at 10 AM Pacific with a quick
>   introduction to the WoT, SSI, principles and high level intro
> Joe Andrieu:
>   https://businessofblockchain.com/web/virtual-summits/blockchain-id
> Lionel Wolberger: A number of companies will do deeper dives
>   throughout the call
> Lionel Wolberger: Joe said, next week decentralized web summit in
>   San Francisco
> Joe Andrieu: https://decentralizedweb.net/
> Lionel Wolberger: Chris- Markus had a panel accepted at that
>   meeting. Decentralized identity panel.
> Kulpreet Singh: SIP is totally not working for me. Will try later
>   again. :(
> Lionel Wolberger: Chris- there will be updates on IPFS, and a
>   wide variety of information on decentralized internet
> Joe Andrieu: https://mydata2018.org/
> Lionel Wolberger: Joe - August 29–31 Kulttuuritalo, Helsinki,
>   Finland
> Lionel Wolberger: RWoT will be 26-28 September 2018
> Lionel Wolberger: TPAC and IIW are the same week in October
> Lionel Wolberger: Joe urges people to attend the TPAC, and win
>   over W3C people
> Dave Longley: TPAC early registration ends in July I think ...
> Dave Longley: Cheaper rates will end.
> Dave Longley: (So hurry up and register)
> Richard A. Kraaijenhagen: TPAC is invite only, can we apply?
> Christopher Allen:
>
> https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22action+item%22_
> Lionel Wolberger: Richard- invite only? Please elaborate.
> Joe Andrieu: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/2
>
> Topic: Progress on Current Action Items
>
> Christopher Allen:
>   C/
> https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22action+item%22_/https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22action+item%22
> Lionel Wolberger: DID Primer, it is now a valid document.
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: PR for possibly complete work items:
>   https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/pull/26/files
>
> Topic: Work Items
>
> Christopher Allen:
>   https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/blob/master/work_items.md
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:
>   https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/pull/26/files
> Andrew Hughes: The github repo for did-primer conversion into
>   ReSpec format is https://github.com/w3c-ccg/did-primer
> Richard A. Kraaijenhagen: @Lionel I was wondering what kind of
>   level of participation in CCG is required to attend tpac.
>   https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/Overview.html#participation
>
> ACTION: update work items with links to final artifacts
>
> Lionel Wolberger: TPAC is invite only??
> Lionel Wolberger: Regarding TPAC: In general it is invite-only.
>   There are ways to get in if you are in a community group.
> Lionel Wolberger: Most working groups do object if people who
>   have not agreed to the IP policy start speaking and contributing.
> Christopher Allen: ?+
> Lionel Wolberger: W3C is in general invite-only, and can be quite
>   detail-oriented when it comes to inspecting your paperwork (which
>   could take time to complete)
> Lionel Wolberger:  The work is delayed a bit... [scribe assist by
>   Manu Sporny]
> Lionel Wolberger:  Data minimazation paper, bring it to the
>   finish line. [scribe assist by Lionel Wolberger]
> Lionel Wolberger: Yes, Chris, bring that grad student
> Lionel Wolberger: We had Shannon as the editor
> Chris Boscolo: Anyone know if the phone bridges is working?
> Lionel Wolberger: Is he still involved?
> Lionel Wolberger: I will work Chris offline and push the paper
>   forward.
> Lionel Wolberger: Thanks
> Christopher Allen: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/did-hackathon-2018
> Joe Kaplan:  BTCR hackathon. Scrum daily via phone. [scribe
>   assist by Lionel Wolberger]
> Lionel Wolberger: ChrisA: There have been many changes due to the
>   DID spec and resolvers
> Lionel Wolberger: ... This changed the "playground" code
> Lionel Wolberger: ... The most interesting thing? We have a
>   GoLang-based version of some of the underlying primitives
> Lionel Wolberger: ... We can now call a GoLang based service to
>   return various things like a revocation address
> Lionel Wolberger: ... (Much better than using a rate-limited
>   bitcoin ledger explorer)
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Worked on adding tests to the playground
> Lionel Wolberger: ... A test unit revealed that one verifiable
>   claim was bad.
> Joe Kaplan:  Attempt to take the playground to the next level.
>   [scribe assist by Lionel Wolberger]
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Jupiter based Python playground
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Electron version of the playground
>   (Electron may be able to do more low level secure things)
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Collaboration (Wilson did this) to port
>   Song's programming class into javascript
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Aim is to have markdown snippets that are
>   editable and executable
> Manu Sporny:  Where should we focus our efforts? e.g. JSON-LD
>   being fixed [scribe assist by Lionel Wolberger]
> Lionel Wolberger: ... There is a JSON-LD playground with a
>   processor ...
> Lionel Wolberger: ... VC.JS a javascript library that will be
>   useful in creating verifiable claims
> Joe Andrieu: S/Jupiter/Jupyter/
> Lionel Wolberger: ... What are the biggest pain points? Can we
>   prioritize our work?
> Chris Boscolo: Fyi, 540-961-4469 <(540)%20961-4469> is not accepting
> incoming calls,
>   tried two different phones, I'll have listen to the recording
>   later
> Joe Andrieu: Tel:+1.540.274.1034 <(540)%20274-1034>;6306
> Jarlath O'Carroll: I'm having problems with the phone as well
> Joe Andrieu: I just posted the current #
> Lionel Wolberger: ChrisA: Outside VCs, in the DID spec itself, we
>   do not have a context for DIDs, we do not have some schema stuff
>   to refer to making it hard to validate
> Lionel Wolberger: ... These things were manageable, though
> Lionel Wolberger: ... The more serious missing pieces are around
>   VCs
> Lionel Wolberger: ... We are using SecP
> Chris Boscolo: Thx!
> Chris Boscolo: Not sure where I got that other number...
> Lionel Wolberger: ... What should a signature suite look like?
>   List the public key or the DID URL that references the key?
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Biggest problem is javascript itself
> Lionel Wolberger: ... A lot of the DID/VC stuff requires the
>   greater security of GoLang or C++
> Lionel Wolberger: ... We have no security reviewed cryptographic
>   code for signing JSON-LD
> Christopher Allen: But json-ld in C++
> Christopher Allen: ?
> Lionel Wolberger: RyanG: Contract design is working in C++ code
> Lionel Wolberger: <My audio just went silent>
> Lionel Wolberger: Back now
> Mike Lodder: Yes I can
> Jarlath O'Carroll: Thank you Joe, Manu
> Joe Kaplan:  Over to Amira [scribe assist by Lionel Wolberger]
>
> Topic: Amira Use Case
>
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Recap: Amira came out of a RWoT user story,
>   and applied information lifecycle engagement model, a 15 stage
>   breakdown of the categories of interaction that a person will go
>   through in interacting with the system
> Joe Andrieu:
>
> https://github.com/WebOfTrustInfo/rebooting-the-web-of-trust-fall2017/blob/master/final-documents/amira.pdf
> Christopher Allen:
>
> https://github.com/WebOfTrustInfo/rebooting-the-web-of-trust-fall2017/blob/master/final-documents/amira.md
> Ryan Grant:  Digital Contract Design is working on C++ code for a
>   BTCR method resolver, but does not have a clear library to link
>   in JSON-LD. [scribe assist by Ryan Grant]
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Amira our heroine is a female programmer
> Lionel Wolberger: ... The story walks her through the 15 stages.
> Manu Sporny: I really like this engagement model because it
>   doesn't presume that the digital world does everything... it
>   blends the physical w/ digital really well.
> Joe Kaplan:  .. Reads through the Amira PDF ... [scribe assist by
>   Lionel Wolberger]
> Lionel Wolberger: Joe concluded.
> Lionel Wolberger: ChrisA: Adding context.
> Moses Ma: Christopher, you are ON in a few minutes at the
>   conference. Please log in ASAP, people are worried.
> Lionel Wolberger: ... What is powerful is that anonymous
>   developers participate
> Joe Andrieu: (Thanks, Moses!)
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Real world example when this Indian young
>   woman did a bitcoin app and got attacked on Reddit
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Often minorities or diverse individuals are
>   locked out
> Lionel Wolberger: .... Joe did this with Joram a while ago
> Lionel Wolberger: ... ChrisA appreciated that it took all the
>   technology "out" in order to highlight the engagement stages
> Lionel Wolberger: ... The engagement stages ensure that the
>   non-technical human level is right
> Lionel Wolberger: ... We had assurance that the verifiable claims
>   looked right ...
> Manu Sporny:  Many great aspects to this [scribe assist by Lionel
>   Wolberger]
> Lionel Wolberger: ... The strength of this story (idealism) may
>   also be its weakness
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Some W3C types may see this as too "head in
>   the clouds"
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Not enough profit, revenue, monetization,
>   efficiencies for existing businesses
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Cannot square this circle
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Perhaps, do another engagement model that
>   is more typically business oriented
> Lionel Wolberger: ... We need good coverage on typical commercial
>   use cases, so we are ready for this type of scrutiny
> Lionel Wolberger: ... This type of idealism can tar the group
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Also: We do not have a detailed expanded
>   story for the mainstream 'capitalist' use case
> Lionel Wolberger: ... And W3C is very dedicated to good old
>   capitalism
> Lionel Wolberger: ... Q: how do we map Amira to the technologies
>   being worked on?
>
>
>
> --
Kim Hamilton Duffy
CTO & Principal Architect Learning Machine
Co-chair W3C Credentials Community Group
400 Main Street Building E19-732, Cambridge, MA 02139

kim@learningmachine.com | kimhd@mit.edu
425-652-0150 | LearningMachine.com