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Verifiable Claims Telecon Minutes for 2016-12-13

From: <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 12:49:35 -0500
Message-Id: <1481651375017.0.28809@zoe>
To: Web Payments IG <public-webpayments-ig@w3.org>, Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
Thanks to Richard Varn for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Verifiable Claims telecon are now available:

http://w3c.github.io/vctf/meetings/2016-12-13/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Verifiable Claims Telecon Minutes for 2016-12-13

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2016Dec/0021.html
Topics:
  1. Vote for Verifiable Claims WG is Open
  2. Reference Libraries
  3. Use of JSON/JSON-LD in spec
  4. Next Meeting
Organizer:
  Manu Sporny
Scribe:
  Richard Varn
Present:
  Richard Varn, Matt Stone, Manu Sporny, Jonathan Holt, Dan 
  Burnett, Christopher Allen, Gregg Kellogg, John Tibbetts, Matthew 
  Larson, Drummond Reed, Dave Longley, Colleen Kennedy, Adam Migus, 
  Joe Andrieu, Les Chasen, Eric Korb
Audio:
  http://w3c.github.io/vctf/meetings/2016-12-13/audio.ogg

Richard Varn is scribing.
Matt Stone:  WG vote has been submitted to the AC, here's our 
  agenda for today.
Matt Stone: 1. Vote for Verifiable Claims WG is open - Vote!
Matt Stone: 2. Use of JSON/JSON-LD in spec[2]
Matt Stone: 3. Use of WebIDL in spec[3]
Matt Stone: 4. Privacy Section Discussion[1]
Matt Stone: 5. Brief intro to github pull requests
Matt Stone: 6. Reference library discussion (javascript/python)
Matt Stone: 7. The role of digital claims (Tim Holborn)
Matt Stone:  Let's move reference library up in agenda to now
Matt Stone: Move point 6. reference library to point 2. in the 
  agenda

Topic: Vote for Verifiable Claims WG is Open

Manu Sporny: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/VCWG/
Manu Sporny:  Must be a w3c member to vote.  Still time to join.
Manu Sporny:  I've been encouraging people to vote via email 
  especially to those who expressed interest and support.  manu 
  will send you instructions on how to join and vote
Manu Sporny:   If you are a member get you AC rep to follow the 
  link and vote
Jonathan Holt: Is there a secret hand-shake if I join?
Manu Sporny: Of course there is a secret handshake. :)
Manu Sporny:  Will send out a call to action on the vote.  feel 
  free to reuse it to encourage others you know.
Manu Sporny:  Don't forget to vote mail as well as recruiting 
  emails will go out
Matt Stone: +1 For manu's persistence
Dan Burnett: +1 Thanks Manu
Jonathan Holt:  Is making appeals to people to join the W3C and 
  vote
Manu Sporny:  We are looking to garner 30-50 votes

Topic: Reference Libraries

Manu Sporny: Useful links: https://w3c-dvcg.github.io/
Christopher Allen:  Looking for signature compatibility with 
  bitcoin/koblitz [scribe assist by Matt Stone]
Manu Sporny: More specifically - We're talking about 
  implementations for this: 
  https://w3c-dvcg.github.io/lds-koblitz2016/
Jonathan Holt: For the notes:  Specifically, I am working on 
  getting the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS) the 
  group that verifies board certification for physicians in the US 
  to join the W3C and sponsor me to represent them.  I am an 
  advisor to the Database and Information Technology and during our 
  last meeting I gave them a briefing regarding the importance of 
  this work.
Manu Sporny: +1 Jonnycrunch! That would be great!
Christopher Allen:   Looking for python libraries to support 
  signatures
Manu Sporny: We're trying to do the Python implementations here: 
  https://github.com/Spec-Ops/pyld-signatures
Christopher Allen:  Making libraries in JavaScript and Python in 
  order to show interoperability [scribe assist by Matt Stone]
Christopher Allen:  1) Where should these be hosted, 2) what 
  other requirements to move these forward, 3) small honarium 
  available to move it forward [scribe assist by Matt Stone]
Christopher Allen:   Javascript and python to be used as they 
  have supporters and by using both we show interoperability. who 
  else interested. where to host.  what other requirements to move 
  forward.  he has a small discretionary honoria type budget to 
  help.
Willen:  part of rebooting reputation poc
Christopher Allen: The Proof of Concept from #RebootingWebOfTrust 
  of a Portable Reputation Toolkit: 
  https://github.com/WebOfTrustInfo/portable-reputation-toolkit
Manu Sporny:   Need two interopberable representations to be a 
  valid standard so this work on python and js linked data 
  signatures would meet the bar for exiting the standards world but 
  more would be welcome like ruby
Manu Sporny: https://github.com/Spec-Ops/pyld-signatures
Jonathan Holt: Please add me @jonnycrunch on github
Manu Sporny:  Can use this repository.  posted above. just ask.
Christopher Allen:  Time stamps and open time stamps need work 
  and a home
Christopher Allen: There is a slack so far at 
  #RebootingWebOfTrust
Christopher Allen: It doesn't have to be there.
Christopher Allen: Weboftrust.slack.comn
Manu Sporny:   Stone what irc and server will we use and manu 
  answered that we will get a vcwg irc channel
Gregg Kellogg: The WG may also choose to create a mailing list 
  specifically for developers.
Christopher Allen: Ooops, weboftrustinfo.slack.com
Gregg Kellogg: Or, a vcwg-comments mailing list.
Christopher Allen: Yes, koblitz and timestamping are not likely 
  WG work.
Manu Sporny: https://w3c-dvcg.github.io/lds-koblitz2016/
Manu Sporny:  Will use the irc channel.  wot slack channel will 
  do out of scope discussion and other communications forums will 
  support the work we do on official channels.  like work on 
  koblitz.
Christopher Allen:   Would like to see a library of to the spec 
  ideas for further definition and work
Jonathan Holt: UPort from Consensys, not sure if they conform to 
  standard
Christopher Allen: I'd like to see a verifiable claims repo of 
  examples of verifiable claims
John Tibbetts:   That extended transcript work related to 
  competency based ed from IMS rebooted this morning to be redone 
  and put into the current vctf structure and format to be shared 
  as done to this group
Christopher Allen: And maybe a wishlist (an easy one: I am a 
  person"
Matthew Larson:  On Acclaim team from pearson and he is working 
  on a signed OBI vc.  wants to be able to verify that his 
  signature is correct
Matthew Larson:   That way we will have a vc from Acclaim
Christopher Allen: Yeah @stonematt!
Matt Stone: :)
Manu Sporny:   Key management in scope for wot but not vcwg
Manu Sporny:   Christopher reply--we should collect our various 
  examples into one place on GH.
Dan Burnett: +1 Manu, the playground would be great
Matt Stone: +1 Playground
Manu Sporny: http://json-ld.org/playground/
Christopher Allen: This playground does have ability to sign with 
  a koblitz key (
Manu Sporny:   A number of us have been talking about a vc 
  playground to create one, digital key signed, and seeing if the 
  are formatted correctly and valid.  Digital bazaar will work on 
  creating the playground separate from the digital sig and LD sig 
  playground.  if you are interested in working on that let us 
  know.
Christopher Allen: A bitcoin private key starts with L)
Manu Sporny:  Will put a repository on open creds for now for vc 
  examples
Manu Sporny: https://github.com/opencreds/vc-examples
Drummond Reed: Manu, please add me as well
Drummond Reed: Note that I'm not on the call yet - just 
  monitoring the chat - had a conflict - will join shortly
Christopher Allen:   What is the nature of a conforming task.  
  would like to take X and run it through various tools like 
  JSON-LD, VC, Python one, Ruby one, and validate it.  likely a 
  topic for test suites discussion.

Topic: Use of JSON/JSON-LD in spec

Manu Sporny: https://github.com/opencreds/vc-data-model/issues/27
Manu Sporny:   Question is do we put JSON-LD up front or keep it 
  hidden. thinks we keep in hidden and not require it as some will 
  work better with JSON and others would be expecting JSON LD so 
  better to not require it and would be unhappily surprised
John Tibbetts: +1 On Dave's description
Dave Longley:   Start off simply with JSON and add other more 
  complex and rich claims can say then how LD is helpful but not 
  required for less complex forms
Dave Longley: To be clear, they should always be JSON-LD, but for 
  simpler claims, most people should be able to write software that 
  doesn't need to do any processing.
Dave Longley: So i'm not suggesting we don't use JSON-LD for 
  simple claims, but that we don't require processing for many 
  basic, useful applications
Dave Longley: So it behaves like JSON, but keeps its semantics.
Jonathan Holt:  Need address meaning/semantics in the model
Matt Stone:  Data model independent of implementation technology 
  has confounds and overlaps in real world
Jonathan Holt: +1 For semantic interoperability
John Tibbetts:  Dave longley expressed what he was trying to get 
  as well.  the underlying data model is a graph not a hierarchy 
  for vc. certain simply reps can be thought of in a JSON POV but 
  other implementations require a graph way of thinking and 
  implementing
Matt Stone: +1 For "it's a graph, not a hierarchy"
Manu Sporny:  Answering matt's q--we have to talk in the wg to 
  address the spec in the abstract and still address the realities 
  of real implementations.  the data model is a graph. we want 
  semantic interop.  need a way to not shun those who do not know 
  some of the more up to date current languages and methods. make 
  it so they do not have to know the new to participate.
Drummond Reed: So, simple question for Manu: is the ultimate spec 
  going to use JSON-LD or just plain JSON?
Manu Sporny:   Also note we prefer to use JLD, but many are 
  alergic to it among browser makers for sure and think there is no 
  need for JSON-LD. need to meet the criticism and do it in a way 
  to make both sides happy as has been show or discussed lately
Matt Stone: +1 To maintain support for the more complex and 
  composed claims
Dave Longley:   Agree with manu in gen.  take lesson from 
  schema.org.  need compatibility between simple and complex so 
  that can work with LD without explicit knowledge of using/doing 
  that.  but still need explicit tacit knowledge to do the complex 
  work. LD will be needed and be LD compatible. scale and 
  decentralization issue
Drummond Reed: That's the answer I expected - I just wanted to 
  know if you thought the W3C folks were going to force it to 
  become just JSON
Dave Longley: For people that aren't familiar with JSON-LD ... it 
  is a subset of JSON, so everything you write in JSON-LD is valid 
  JSON.
Manu Sporny: +1 For it being a persistent resource/URL.
Jonathan Holt:   Need a good implementation guide to help in 
  adoption which encourages use of LD up front were warranted.  
  need a persistent place to store hash. looking at IPFS.
Matt Stone:  Can we take this off the agenda and move on to repo?
Jonathan Holt: Issue with ipfs with that is needs to be a 
  deterministic json document.  line breaks ( pretty print) in json 
  changes the hash of the document.
Dave Longley: https://w3id.org
Drummond Reed: Who runs w3id.org? Is it W3C?
Jonathan Holt: +1 For purl w3id.org
Manu Sporny:   How do we make it more palatable to other nonLD 
  people. managing the url is part of the work for longlived 
  decentralized contexts.  shared link.  IPFS is also a option.  no 
  final context one way to do it.
Manu Sporny: Drummond, it's a number of companies - Spec Ops, 
  Digital Bazaar, Botatsu... working in a way like Sovrin 
  Foundation.
Drummond Reed:  It's run by: 
  https://www.w3.org/community/perma-id/ [scribe assist by Dave 
  Longley]
Drummond Reed: Cool, thanks
Manu Sporny: Specifically, it's NOT run by W3C.
Jonathan Holt:   Can cache some contexts
Drummond Reed: Gott run now to the XDI TC meeting
Manu Sporny: W3id.org is run by a consortium of companies that 
  have committed to keepign the site alive for 100+ years.
Manu Sporny: +1 For not meeting on 27th

Topic: Next Meeting

Matt Stone:  Proposal to not meet on the 27th.
Drummond Reed: +1 To not meeting on the 27th
Gregg Kellogg: There are other uses (e.g., WoT), where having a 
  context that is known not to change can be important.
Matt Stone:   We will meet next week but not the 27th.
Matt Stone: Burn are you still there?
Received on Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:50:03 UTC

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