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Re: Part of text is no longer valid - G156, C23 and C25

From: Loretta Guarino Reid <lorettaguarino@google.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 11:41:15 -0700
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=ayGQOVJHgw7irrPbhS5BGxar8OiX6MYyHZXYy@mail.gmail.com>
To: Sheena McCullagh <sheena.mccullagh@blueyonder.co.uk>
Cc: public-comments-wcag20@w3.org
Sheena,

My apologies! I accidentally sent the response to another of your
comments. Here is the working group response to this comment:

Thank you for alerting us to this improvement in Firefox, and for
identifying the places that needed updating. We have determined that
this fix occurred in Firefox 3.0, so instead of removing Firefox from
the User Agent Notes, we have corrected them to say versions of
Firefox before Firefox 3.0.

In general, we have not added the notes about Safari to the
descriptions of the techniques. Safari's restrictions are included in
the User Agent Notes, and including the Safari restrictions in the
descriptions makes the techniques more difficult to understand.

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 5:58 AM, Sheena McCullagh
<sheena.mccullagh@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Hello Loretta,
>
> You have completely lost me with this matter.  I was talking about
> amendments with sufficient techniques G156, C23 and C25 which are all in SC
> 1.4.8 and deal specifically with colours and what happens in various user
> agents.
>
> You're replied with use of multiple sufficient techniques and given an
> example of SC 2.2.1 stating AND for sufficient techniques.
>
> To me the two things are completely different as I was trying to make
> amendments within specific sufficient techniques, not stating that there
> needed to be more than one sufficient technique, or have I missed the point?
>
> Sheena
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loretta Guarino Reid [mailto:lorettaguarino@google.com]
> Sent: 04 September 2010 02:46
> To: sheena.mccullagh@blueyonder.co.uk
> Cc: public-comments-wcag20@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Part of text is no longer valid - G156, C23 and C25
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 1:49 PM,  <sheena.mccullagh@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Name: Sheena McCullagh
>> Email: sheena.mccullagh@blueyonder.co.uk
>> Affiliation: None
>> Document: TD
>> Item Number: (none selected)
>> Part of Item: User Agent Notes
>> Comment Type: technical
>> Summary of Issue: Part of text is no longer valid - G156, C23 and C25
>> Comment (Including rationale for any proposed change):
>> When WAIG2 was out for public comment I emailed in my concerns which were
> copied and pasted into G156.  I later wrote C23 and added in the same text.
>  I also wrote C25 and while the user agent notes are not added to this,
> reference to the issues is made within the text.
>>
>> While what I said at the time was valid, part of it no longer is ie
> Firefox have corrected the following issue (NB I'm not sure about
> Netscape.) - 'When specified colors are overridden in Firefox and Netscape,
> most Javascript pop-up boxes and drop-down menus become unusable. Pop-up
> boxes gain a transparent background, superimposing the text of the box on
> the text of the page, and drop-down menus either become transparent or gain
> a dark-grey background.'
>>
>> No mention was ever made of Safari, which doesn't allow you to specify
> colours, not even the PC version, nor does it pick up the colours selected
> in the system settings.  This is true even for the latest version, ie Safari
> 5.0.1
>>
>> The text of the description sections will then also need amending.
>>
>> Proposed Change:
>> Check Netscape to see if the problem has been corrected.  If it has
> completely remove the above detailed paragraph.  If it hasn't been
> corrected, remove the text 'Firefox and' from the above paragraph. (G156 and
> C23.)
>>
>> Underneath the current final paragraph (about IE 6), add in text regarding
> Safari, eg:
>>
>> There are no color settings in Safari so it is not possible to over-ride
> specified colors. Similarly where colors are not specified Safari displays
> the page in black text on a white background, ignoring any color preferences
> from within the system settings.
>>
>> Add this amended User Agent not to the top of C25.
>>
>> C23 - In the description.  Second paragraph, after the first comma add in
> 'with the exception of Safari,' to make the first sentence read 'When an
> author does not specify the colors of the text and background of the main
> content, with the exception of Safari, it is possible to change the colors
> of those regions in the browser without the need to override the colors with
> a user style sheet'.
>>
>> C23 - In the description.  Third paragraph, second sentence, after the
> first three words add in ', with the exception of Safari,' to make that
> sentence read 'As a result, with the exception of Safari, the colors are
> completely determined by the user agent via the user's color preferences.'
>>
>> C25 - In the description if the Netscape have corrected the JavaScript
> issues, the final sentence of the first paragraph needs removing.
>>
>> C25 - In the description again if the Netscape have corrected the
> JavaScript issues, the following sentence needs removing from the second
> paragraph - 'It can also mean that pop-up boxes gain a transparent
> background, superimposing the text of the box on the text of the page, and
> drop-down menus either become transparent or gain a dark-grey background.'
>>
>> C25 - In the description (NB this is to be used in conjuntion with adding
> the User agent not to the top of the technique) - at the end of the first
> sentence add in '(please see above note in relation to Safari)'
>>
>>
> ================================
> Response from the Working Group
> ================================
> Thank you for bringing this to our attention.  We are simplifying the
> paragraph and providing an example:
>
> Sufficient techniques are provided in a numbered list where each list
> item provides the technique or combination of techniques that can be
> used to meet the Success Criterion. When there are multiple techniques
> on a numbered list item connected by "AND" then all of the techniques
> must be used.
>
> For example, Situation B in Understanding Success Criterion 2.2.1
> lists as the third sufficient technique:
>  SCR16: Providing a script that warns the user a time limit is about
> to expire (Scripting) AND  SCR1: Allowing the user to extend the
> default time limit  (Scripting)
>
> So both SCR16 and SCR1 must be used to satisfy this success criterion.
>
>
>
> Loretta Guarino Reid, WCAG WG Co-Chair
> Gregg Vanderheiden, WCAG WG Co-Chair
> Michael Cooper, WCAG WG Staff Contact
>
>
> On behalf of the WCAG Working Group
>
>
>
Received on Saturday, 4 September 2010 18:41:47 UTC

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