W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org > October 2015

Re: Two important drafts to review.

From: Steve Lee <steve@opendirective.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:31:05 +0100
Message-ID: <CAEsWMvRG==OgqbhQGMH9zCvRr55P4FYYwutVneUG6T-CxsdmoA@mail.gmail.com>
To: EA Draffan <ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: "lisa.seeman" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>, Michael Pluke <Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com>, Jamie Knight <Jamie.Knight@bbc.co.uk>, public-cognitive-a11y-tf <public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>, "Rochford, John" <john.rochford@umassmed.edu>
As a bit of off topic light relief - some hipster friendly symbols

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/25/hipster-emojis_n_8035676.html


Steve Lee
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com

On 12 October 2015 at 14:09, EA Draffan <ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

> I think the mapping would be possible if all the commercial symbol sets
> shared an ontology that allowed the symbol to symbol matching to take
> place.  It is possible to develop this type of metadata as the symbol sets
> all have certain signature elements for grammar etc (parts of speech such
> as arrows for past and future and plurals) but these are not the same when
> working in different languages.  So take Arabic and English the arrow
> direction is reversed for past and future as the language is written from
> right to left.   However, I am sure that could also be tagged!
>
>
>
> Bliss and the pictogram type symbol sets are very different and then you
> have the sets that work mainly with phrases rather than a one to one word
> correspondence.   There is compaction where phrases are represented by one
> symbol etc.  There are also cases of one to many where a word can be
> represented by several different symbols because of a change in meaning
> such as ‘bow’ which depends on context and this is particularly so in
> Arabic.
>
>
>
> All these issues can be supported by the appropriate metadata, but it is a
> huge job (time = funding?) and Chaohai and I have discussed this on many
> occasions.  We even presented the idea at a conference last year. We have
> tried to make a Symbol Dragoman to test the principle.
> http://www.slideshare.net/eadraffan/symbol-dragoman-overview.  One of our
> PhD students has been working on the concept of symbol to text in Arabic.
> There is lots on research into the reverse mainly based on concept coding.
> Frameworks.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> E.A.
>
>
>
> Mrs E.A. Draffan
>
> WAIS, ECS , University of Southampton
>
> Mobile +44 (0)7976 289103
>
> http://access.ecs.soton.ac.uk
>
> UK AAATE rep http://www.aaate.net/
>
> http://www.emptech.info
>
>
>
> *From:* lisa.seeman [mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com]
> *Sent:* 12 October 2015 05:11
> *To:* Michael Pluke <Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com>
> *Cc:* EA Draffan <ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk>; Steve Lee <steve@opendirective.com>;
> Jamie Knight <Jamie.Knight@bbc.co.uk>; public-cognitive-a11y-tf <
> public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>; Rochford, John <
> john.rochford@umassmed.edu>
>
> *Subject:* RE: Two important drafts to review.
>
>
>
> Hi Michael
>
> yes - this is the problem. that is why it is only a technique under
> development and not yet a recommended technique.
>
> We are trying to circumvent this problem in a few ways - you can read some
> of them in the ftf minuets. we Came Across and new ones ... I think EA and
> her team are working on some of these issues (for Arabic symbols, which is
> an extremely hard use case.)
>
>
>
> All the best Lisa Seeman Athena ICT Accessibility Projects
> <http://accessibility.athena-ict.com>LinkedIn, Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon ----, 12 Oct 2015 01:11:13 +0300 *Michael Pluke
> <Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com <Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com>>* Wrote
> ----
>
> I assume that it would not be possible to substitute the (possibly
> unfamiliar) symbols that represent a passage of text with symbols from a
> different (familiar) symbol set if the two symbol sets differ significantly
> "in style and linguistic elements". There would, presumably, be no
> one-to-one mappings between symbols and frequently some of the words or
> concepts represented in one set would probably not be directly represented
> in the other set.
>
>
>
> In your experience (EA or anyone else), are there families of symbol sets
> that are sufficiently similar in terms of style and linguistic elements
> that automatic substitution of all the (possibly unfamiliar) symbols that
> convey the meaning of a passage of text with equivalent symbols from the
> user's preferred set of symbols, if their set comes from the same family,
> would lead to a successful outcome? Could this work well enough to preserve
> the meaning of the passage of text in an adequate manner?
>
>
>
> It is clear that simple personalization schemes to swap one set of symbols
> for another will not work successfully in all cases (eg when the symbol
> sets differ significantly "in style and linguistic elements"). NULL unless
> there are symbols sets That *are Similar* "in style and linguistic
> elements" to other symbol sets (ie Families of conceptually Similar symbol
> sets) Then there will be *no Circumstances* where the conceptually simple
> idea of swapping one set of symbols for Another based on user preferences
> will deliver a coherent outcome. We really need to understand whether
> suitably compatible symbol sets ("families") exist before offering a
> solution that relies on this being the case.
>
>
>
> Making substitutions based on user preferences will always work well in
> many other cases (eg fonts, colours, positive / negative contrast, etc.),
> so there is nothing wrong with the COGA TF promoting this idea in general -
> indeed it is an excellent idea .
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: EA Draffan [mailto: <ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk>Ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk]
>
> Sent: 09 October 2015 15:09
>
> To: Steve Lee <Steve@opendirective.com>
>
> Cc: Jamie Knight <Jamie.Knight@bbc.co.uk>; -cognitive-public A11y-tf <
> Public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>; Lisa.seeman <Lisa.seeman@zoho.com>;
> Rochford, John <John.rochford@umassmed.edu>
>
> Subject: Re: Two important drafts to review.
>
>
>
> I also agree. There are ARASAAC and SCLERA as Creative Commons symbol sets
> but very different in style and linguistic elements.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> EA
>
> Sent from my mobile phone
>
>
>
> 9 Oct 2015 On, at 13:56, Steve Lee> >> Wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> +1
>
>
>
> Though Garry has passed straight-street pending much needed resources.
>
>
>
> Steve Lee
>
> Sent from my mobile device Please excuse typing errors
>
>
>
> 9 Oct 2015 On 12:33, "Jamie Knight" <>> Wrote:
>
> Helo,
>
>
>
> +1 To:
>
>
>
> "I do not agree with the following. I do not think any recommendation will
> be widely / sufficiently adopted if it requires people with disabilities to
> purchase something."
>
>
>
> IMHO We should work in the open via things like Straight Street and the
> noun project.
>
>
>
> Jamie + Lion
>
> _______________________________________
>
> From: Rochford, John [John.rochford@umassmed.edu
> <john.rochford@umassmed.edu><mailto: John.rochford@umassmed.edu>]
>
> Sent: 09 October 2015 12:14
>
> To: Lisa.seeman; public-cognitive-a11y-tf
>
> Subject: RE: Two important drafts to review.
>
>
>
> Hi Lisa and All,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There's a lot to like about the drafts. I think the explanations and the
> examples are good. Grammar issues will have to be resolved in the final
> version.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I think we should be sure what we are proposing can not be accomplished
> within ARIA's current capabilities. I believe this is in line w / Rich's
> previous comments.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I wonder if our proposal will be obviated by GPII, as Steve may be
> suggesting.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I do not agree with the following. I do not think any recommendation will
> be widely / sufficiently adopted if it requires people with disabilities to
> purchase something.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "That means the end use (sic) could buy the symbols and use them across
> different devices or applications."
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> Rochford John <Http://profiles.umassmed.edu/profiles/display/132901>
>
> UMass Medical School / EK Shriver Center Director, INDEX Instructor
> Program, Family Medicine & Community Health http://www.DisabilityInfo.org>
>
> Twitter:ClearHelper <Https://twitter.com/clearhelper>
>
> [Facebook Button] <Https://twitter.com/NEINDEX>
> <https://twitter.com/NEINDEX> [WordPress Logo] <
> Http://www.disabilityinfo.org/blog/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Lisa.seeman ["> mailto: Lisa.seeman@zoho.com <mailto:
> <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>Lisa.seeman@zoho.com>]
>
> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 9:27 PM
>
> To: public-cognitive-A11y-tf <>>
>
> Subject: Two important drafts to review.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Folks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I pulled together the conclusions for this weeks call, and the other
> emails going back and forth, to make a new version of the adaptable links
> and buttons issue paper. I think it is now ready to be a proposal for
> WAI-ARIA extension for COGA.
>
>
>
> Please take a look and tell me what else it needs to be submitted as a
> first draft for ARIA to look at.
>
>
>
> see: Https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/links-buttons.html
> <https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/links-buttons.html>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> When we have it all together it is easier to see if there are issues. So
> please review it carefully.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I also pulled out of the draft of the gap analysis the content that is
> relevant for a WCAG extension. See
> Https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposal_for_WCAG
> <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposal_for_WCAG>
>
>
>
> I think we should review it and then ask WCAG if this is in the right
> direction.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Taking these two pieces out of the gap analysis may allow us more time to
> work on the other issue papers without delaying the dependent deadlines for
> WCAG or ARIA.
>
>
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>
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>
>
> All the best
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lisa Seeman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ICT Accessibility Projects Athena <Http://accessibility.athena-ict.com>
>
>
>
> LinkedIn <Http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>
> <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/> Twitter <
> Https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>
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Received on Tuesday, 13 October 2015 11:31:35 UTC

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