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Re: testing the CanvasEditor attachment with JAWS12 and IE9 beta (was: Reworked Canvas 2D API using our revised DrawFocusRing)

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 19:48:59 +0000
To: Charles Pritchard <chuck@jumis.com>, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, public-canvas-api@w3.org
Cc: david.bolter@gmail.com, janina@rednote.net, jcraig@apple.com
Message-Id: <20101129194518.M71425@hicom.net>
aloha, charles!

ah, so you were working off the Freedom Scientific ARIA implementation
report -- gotcha...

the application role is a swtich, though, not a landmark, as defined at:

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#application

QUOTE
When a user navigates an element assigned the role of application,
assistive technologies that typically intercept standard keyboard events
SHOULD switch to an application browsing mode, and pass keyboard events
through to the web application. The intent is to hint to certain assistive
technologies to switch from normal browsing mode into a mode more
appropriate for interacting with a web application; some user agents have
a browse navigation mode where keys, such as up and down arrows, are used
to browse the document, and this native behavior prevents the use of these
keys by a web application.
UNQUOTE

which is why i expected the JAWS-reported landmark to be "form"

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#form

QUOTE
A landmark region that contains a collection of items and objects that, as
a whole, combine to create a form. Also see search.

[...]

User agents SHOULD treat elements with the role of form as navigational
landmarks.
UNQUOTE

----------------------------------------------------------------
CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils,
as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them 
with others.         -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
----------------------------------------------------------------
             Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
  Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------------


---------- Original Message -----------
From: Charles Pritchard <chuck@jumis.com>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
Cc: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>, david.bolter@gmail.com,
janina@rednote.net, jcraig@apple.com
Sent: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 11:38:45 -0800
Subject: Re: testing the CanvasEditor attachment with JAWS12 and IE9 beta
(was: Reworked Canvas 2D API using our revised DrawFocusRing)

> I popped in role="application".
> 
> The e-mail that Greg forwarded had suggested its use for JAWS.
> 
> On 11/29/2010 11:36 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
> >
> > a landmark?
> >
> >
> > Rich Schwerdtfeger
> > CTO Accessibility Software Group
> >
> > Inactive hide details for "Gregory J. Rosmaita" ---11/29/2010 01:32:34 
> > PM---aloha, charles! had the opportunity to try your ame"Gregory J. 
> > Rosmaita" ---11/29/2010 01:32:34 PM---aloha, charles! had the 
> > opportunity to try your amended canvas demo
> >
> > From: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
> > To: Charles Pritchard <chuck@jumis.com>public-canvas-api@w3.org, 
> > Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> > Cc: david.bolter@gmail.com, janina@rednote.net, jcraig@apple.com
> > Date: 11/29/2010 01:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: testing the CanvasEditor attachment with JAWS12 and IE9 
> > beta (was: Reworked Canvas 2D API using our revised DrawFocusRing)
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > aloha, charles!
> >
> > had the opportunity to try your amended canvas demo
> > _
> >
__http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010OctDec/att-0048/CanvasEditor.html_

> >
> >
> > due to an FF crash whilst preparing for today's canvas meeting!
> >
> > 1. when load page, JAWS 12: says: "1 landmark and no links"
> >
> > 2. using JAWS 12's "jump-to-landmark" command (semi-colon when in HTML 
> > mode),
> > i was able to move focus to the first checkbox, whose label was
> > correctly reported via JAWS 12;
> >
> > 3. when tab-navigating page JAWS 12 says:
> >
> > "show as checkbox not checked"
> >
> > after another tab, JAWS 12 states:
> >
> > "show Bs checkbox not checked"
> >
> > 4. using the SPACEBAR, i received confirmation from JAWS 12 the state of
> > each checkbox (checked or unchecked)
> >
> > 5. the "List of Form Fields" reported the label, control type and control
> > state, as expected
> >
> > congratulations, charles! -- you've gotten it to work in IE9 and JAWS12
> >
> > gregory.
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > He that will not apply new remedies must expect new evils;
> > for time is the great innovator.      -- Sir Francis Bacon
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >            Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus@hicom.net
> >        Camera Obscura: _http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/_ 
> > <http://www.hicom.net/%7Eoedipus/>
> >    Oedipus' Online Complex: _http://my.opera.com/oedipus/_
> > United Blind Advocates for Talking Signs: _http://ubats.org_ 
> > <http://ubats.org/>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > From: Charles Pritchard <chuck@jumis.com>
> > To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
> > Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, david.bolter@gmail.com,
> > janina@rednote.net, jcraig@apple.com, public-canvas-api@w3.org
> > Sent: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:27:27 -0800
> > Subject: Re: testing the CanvasEditor attachment with JAWS12 and IE9 beta
> > (was: Reworked Canvas 2D API using our revised DrawFocusRing)
> >
> > > Attached is an updated version, working with the 'spacebar'
> > > behavior of IE9.
> > >
> > > I've adapted it to work with WebKit, visually. Keyboard events
> > > don't work, and the elements are not actually receiving focus.
> > > Visually, it represents focus properly.
> > >
> > > These hacks would certainly be removed from the spec, but I
> > > think they're useful for testing purposes, during discussion.
> > >
> > > Greg, let me know if the JAWS behavior is 'far-off', or near..
> > > And if it's near, if there are any particular commands which are
> > > not returning what we'd like.
> > >
> > > Tell me the key sequence for JAWS, the current behavior, and the
> > > correct behavior. I'll try to alter the ARIA attributes to fit
> > > the correct behavior.
> > >
> > > -Charles
> > >
> > > On 11/26/2010 10:21 AM, Charles Pritchard wrote:
> > > > Greg, I went ahead and installed the trial JAWS: I'm not a JAWS user,
> > > > so my ability to judge is rather limited.
> > > >
> > > > Rich, attached is an update to the CanvasEditor . I added in some 
> > ARIA
> > > > attributes.
> > > >
> > > > Frank Oliver:
> > > > Using "spacebar" while focused on a checkbox seems to fire a Mouse 
> > event.
> > > > That's interesting. Tell me more.
> > > >
> > > > I noticed it, because I was using event.target for processClick,
> > > > when I hit space bar, the target was the input element.
> > > >
> > > > All:
> > > >
> > > > I'll add some more logic for the keyboard-triggered behavior, once I
> > > > get better definition from Frank O.
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to move WebKit in this direction, so we can get ourselves a
> > > > second "independent" implementation.
> > > >
> > > > I know that the MS team is extremely busy --- If there are some
> > > > internal documents that can
> > > > be shared publicly, it would help me convey implementation details to
> > > > peripheral WebKit programmers.
> > > >
> > > > Note: I'm not affiliated with WebKit, Apple, Google nor the W3C. When
> > > > I say I'll move WebKit, I mean
> > > > that I'll file the appropriate bug reports / defects.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Charles
> > > >
> > > > On 11/24/2010 5:25 PM, Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote:
> > > >> aloha, rich!
> > > >>
> > > >> thanks for the explanation -- i will take the demo and try hearing
> > > >> what JAWS 12 and IE9 beta can and can't add to the user experience
> > > >> i described and will post results and pointers, gregory.
> > > >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> He that will not apply new remedies must expect new evils;
> > > >> for time is the great innovator.      -- Sir Francis Bacon
> > > >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>              Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus@hicom.net
> > > >>          Camera Obscura: _http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/_ 
> > <http://www.hicom.net/%7Eoedipus/>
> > > >>      Oedipus' Online Complex: _http://my.opera.com/oedipus/_
> > > >> United Blind Advocates for Talking Signs: _http://ubats.org_ 
> > <http://ubats.org/>
> > > >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------- Original Message -----------
> > > >> From: Richard Schwerdtfeger<schwer@us.ibm.com>
> > > >> To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita"<oedipus@hicom.net>
> > > >> Cc: david.bolter@gmail.com, janina@rednote.net, jcraig@apple.com,
> > > >> public-
> > > >> canvas-api@w3.org
> > > >> Sent: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:24:26 -0600
> > > >> Subject: Re: testing the CanvasEditor attachment with JAWS12 and IE9
> > > >> beta
> > > >> (was: Reworked Canvas 2D API using our revised DrawFocusRing)
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hi Gregory,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks for giving it a spin. I think I know the main problem. We
> > > >>> are using the HTML 5 labelling mechanism:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> <label><input type=checkbox id=showA>  Show As</label>
> > > >>> <label><input type=checkbox id=showB>  Show Bs</label>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> versus the standard:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> <input type="checkbox" id="foo" />
> > > >>> <label for="foo">Show As</label>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So, either IE does not map the accessibility API properly or
> > > >>> JAWS simply does not handle this. I will send the example off to
> > > >>> Freedom Scientific. Freedom Scientific does not yet support HTML
> > > >>> 5 in their products.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Rich
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> > > >>> CTO Accessibility Software Group
> > > >>>
> > > >>> From:    "Gregory J. Rosmaita"<oedipus@hicom.net>
> > > >>> To:    Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS,
> > > >>>               public-canvas-api@w3.org
> > > >>> Cc:    david.bolter@gmail.com, jcraig@apple.com, janina@rednote.net
> > > >>> Date:    11/24/2010 12:30 PM
> > > >>> Subject:    testing the CanvasEditor attachment with JAWS12 and IE9
> > > >>> beta
> > > >>>              (was: Reworked Canvas 2D API using our revised
> > > >>> DrawFocusRing)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> aloha, rich!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> using IE9 beta and JAWS 12 (latest official release) i can 
> > minimally
> > > >>> access the contents of
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas_-
> > > >>> api/2010OctDec/att- 0035/CanvasEditor.html
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 1. when i issue a ReadAll command, i hear: "Show As Show Bs";
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 2. when i tab navigate to the document via the IE9 chrome, i
> > > >>> hear: "Show As Show Bs";
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 3. when i tab navigate the document itself, i hear: "Show As" --
> > > >>> a subsequent tab does not cause JAWS to announce the second item
> > > >>> in the canvas ("show Bs")
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 3A. if i tab navigate the document itself, whilst nothing is 
> > announced
> > > >>> when i tab a second time, a DownArrow causes JAWS to speak "Show
> > > >>> Bs";
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 4. the checkboxes which the document source indicates should be
> > > >>> included
> > > >>> in the canvas element are totally invisible to JAWS;
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 5. i could not determine if pressing the SPACEBAR while on 1 of
> > > >>> the 2 checkboxes activated the checkbox;
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 6. i could not use JAWS' checkbox hot key (x) to access either
> > > >>> checkbox;
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 7. using the "List of Form Controls" command (INSERT+F5) i
> > > >>> received a list of two items:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> check box not checked
> > > >>> check box not checked
> > > >>>
> > > >>> but only the existence and state of the checkboxes are reported,
> > > >>> not their labels ("Show As" and "Show Bs"); when i attempted to 
> > select
> > > >>> one of the checkboxes using this mechanism, a recheck of the
> > > >>> "list of form controls" indicated that the checkbox remained 
> > unchecked
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 7A. i could not activate either checkbox using the "List of Form
> > > >>> Controls"
> > > >>>
> > > >>> let me know if you want/need more testing
> > > >>>
> > > >>> hope this helps, gregory.
> > > >>> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>> ACCOUNTABILITY, n. The mother of caution.
> > > >>>                   -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
> > > >>> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>>           Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
> > > >>>   Vice-Chair, Webmaster&  Listmaster: Open Accessibility
> > > >>> _http://a11y.org_ <http://a11y.org/> _http://a11y.org/specs_
> > > >>> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> ------- End of Original Message -------
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > ------- End of Original Message -------
------- End of Original Message -------
Received on Monday, 29 November 2010 19:50:22 GMT

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