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[minutes] BPWG Teleconference 2008-05-22

From: Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:26:27 +0200
Message-ID: <483590A3.20505@w3.org>
To: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group WG <public-bpwg@w3.org>

The minutes of today's call are available at:
http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-bpwg-minutes.html

... and copied as text below.

Resolutions taken:
- Widgets are in scope of BP2, we will call out specific best practices 
that only apply to Widgets
- We back off from the list of Web Application characteristics 
originally proposed by Jeffs in favour of the less definitive text 
currently under scope

A few new actions on Adam, Charles and Jo.

Francois.


Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
22 May 2008

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008May/0027.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-bpwg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           jeffs, francois, jo, dom, adam, Bryan_Sullivan, Scott, yeliz,
           miguel, manrique, SeanP, chaals

    Regrets
           MartinJ, Murari, AlanTai, rob, nacho, PhilA, kemp, Pontus,
           AlanC, Kai, Abel, EdM

    Chair
           Jo

    Scribe
           jeffs

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]F2F Registration
          2. [6]Use of ISSUE tracker
          3. [7]Task Force Reports
          4. [8]MobileOK License (cf. ISSUE-250)
          5. [9]BP-2
          6. [10]any other business
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <dom> [my regrets for next week, while I'm at it :/]

F2F Registration

    discussion of face-to-face meeting upcoming

    <dom> [12]Registration for F2F meeting in Sophia

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/BPWG-F2F-June-2008/

    reminder to reply to the questionairre ASAP

    <dom> [13]Responses to the Registration, 24 answers

      [13] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/BPWG-F2F-June-2008/results

    <dom> (14 persons)

    jo: chair for next meeting needed... francois?

    francois: agrees to chair next mtg

Use of ISSUE tracker

    jo: reminding folks anybody can raise an issue, and this is probably
    the best way to do so

    <jo> [14]Raise an Issue

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/new

Task Force Reports

    francois: report no real progress
    ... will send summary of discussion to clarify

    jo: how many topics still open?

    francois: thinks just 1 or 2 issues left to close out

    jo: new draft of Pro
    ... please read
    ... should have new draft of accessibility next week
    ... MobileOK algprithms

    algprithms/algorithms

    francois: as far as can tell is mostly okay now
    ... objects w/o any type attributes now part of testing
    ... example problem... primary image not MobileOK, fallback is okay,
    doc should test out okay

    <francois> [15]Problem with Included resource and CONTENT_FORMAT

      [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008May/0018.html

    jo: probably relatively easy to fix by tidying up definitions

    francois: agrees

    jo: will redraft

    <jo> ACTION: jo to redraft definition of Included resources
    according to the points noted by Francois [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-761 - Redraft definition of Included
    resources according to the points noted by Francois [on Jo Rabin -
    due 2008-05-29].

    jo: any thoughts about discrepancies? was the original reason for
    raising the ISSUE

    <dom> +1 on the current algorithm being correct

    jo: concerned to make sure we get this right this time

MobileOK License (cf. ISSUE-250)

    <dom>
    [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008May/0043.htm
    l

      [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008May/0043.html

    dom: discusses license

    <dom>
    [18]http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-mobileok-policy.html

      [18] http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-mobileok-policy.html

    <dom> current discussion:
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/250

      [19] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/250

    jo: not sure if this should go to offline conversation

    dom: need to separate legal issue(s) from actual policy or technical
    issues

    jo: agrees
    ... what about where someone puts on page not really qualified? tech
    issue or policy issue or...?

    dom: both tech and legal issues involved
    ... lists what it takes to put MobileOK on page

    jo: discussion of how to write this up in simple fashion
    ... thinks discussion is really about legal issues and under ISSUE
    250
    ... which do we need to resolve as technical issues, and wish not?

    <jo> ACTION: Charles to review ISSUE-250 with a view to how this
    affects content of mobileOK scheme [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-762 - Review ISSUE-250 with a view to
    how this affects content of mobileOK scheme [on Charles
    McCathieNevile - due 2008-05-29].

    dom: more on license
    ... current thinking: pass tests, get badge... discussion?

    jo: cannot imagine rush of products into this space
    ... progress on this is good

BP-2

    jo: asks adam to talk about scope

    adam: questions being discussed... what is a web application? bring
    in widget containers? redrafted scope section and sent out
    ... wants conclusion on in/out of scope for widget containers

    jo: can we accomplish this today?

    adam: wants to de-scope issue and simplify discussion
    ... how can we include BP in that area

    <jo> ack

    jo: asks Bryan for comments

    bryan: says sig stds activities and products out there
    ... we will lose our leadership position if we do not address this
    issue

    jo: how to accomplish this best?
    ... asks opinion of chaals

    <chaals> CMN: Don't see that these need to be out of scope, but
    don't think that there is a massive amount there

    jo: what is minimum we need to accomplish on this?
    ... asks for resolution text

    adam: wants enumeration of what to address for browsers, what for
    widget containers

    <chaals> [think the text would say that widgets should use W3C
    widget standard, and then meet other requirements of BP/BP2 (since
    there is a big escape clause in adapting to your host]

    bryan: talks about multithreading browser environments and
    similarity of issues w what happens w widgets
    ... took out characteristics list
    ... issues developers face is equivalent

    adam: did not like list, not sure what it added in terms of clarity
    ... agrees w bryan that much of this also appies to widget
    containers

    bryan: doesn't want to discourage people reading this who are
    developing for non-browser environments

    <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Widgets are in scope of BP2, we will call
    out specific best practices that only apply to Widgets

    discussion of how to word this

    <Zakim> chaalsXO, you wanted to say widgets are apps

    adam: say they are in scope and I will rewrite

    <chaals> CMN: The only special thing about widgets is the container
    format, for management, and I think we will say that certain kinds
    of application should be available packaged as widgets. For the
    rest, they are just web applications, and should be treated as such,
    conforming to BP.

    jo: reservation... wants to leave resolution as-is to leave room to
    work

    <jo> ACTION: Adam to reword scope section ref Widgets to clairy and
    introduce caveats [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-763 - Reword scope section ref Widgets
    to clarify and introduce caveats [on Adam Connors - due 2008-05-29].

    <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Widgets are in scope of BP2, we will call
    out specific best practices that only apply to Widgets

    <aconnors> +1

    +1

    <jo> +1

    RESOLUTION: Widgets are in scope of BP2, we will call out specific
    best practices that only apply to Widgets

    jo: back to family resemblance list

    adam: list too wordy and does not add clarity
    ... cut it out entirely

    jo: likes list, but point is hard to define things sometimes

    bryan: is intent to collapse this list?
    ... discusses items on list that could be represented

    <dom> chaals: I don't think we can make a list that'll match the
    real world for long enough to make that exercice worth it

    chaals: does not think we can make definitive list, and we must work
    with what we can write

    <Zakim> chaalsXO, you wanted to say no

    zzakimj, unmute me

    <Bryan>
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/E
    D-mobile-bp2-20080514

      [22] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20080514

    <Bryan>
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/E
    D-mobile-bp2-20080521

      [23] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20080521

    <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We back off from the list of Web
    Applicaiton characteristics originally proposed by Jeffs in favour
    of the less definitve text currently under scope

    RESOLUTION: We back off from the list of Web Application
    characteristics originally proposed by Jeffs in favour of the less
    definitive text currently under scope

    jo: thinks removal in favor of brevity good idea

    <jo> [agreed to remove 1.4.4 and 1.4.5 in present draft]

    bryan: discussion of moving text around and renumbering
    ... took "requirement" part and put as part of "introduction" to
    "best practices" section
    ... focus on tweaking 4.1 - 4.6 to make clearer
    ... 4.6 incorporates more input
    ... context- and device-info core of new input

    jo: timing means many folks have not had a chance to review draft
    yet
    ... how close are we to publishing a 1st working draft of this?

    bryan: we are close, need to address if structure is meeting needs?
    ... do we want to put in objectives? or is that just "more words"

    adam: likes rearranging, thinks more in-scope, thinks pretty close
    but wants to re-read end-to-end
    ... do we still need a requirements section?

    jo: discussion of document wording
    ... review it over the next 1-2 weeks
    ... how are we going to organize meeting?

    <jo> ACTION: Jo to remind DKA that he was going to book a room at
    Vodafone for the Editorial Meeting [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-bpwg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-764 - Remind DKA that he was going to
    book a room at Vodafone for the Editorial Meeting [on Jo Rabin - due
    2008-05-29].

any other business

    jo: reminder to register for f2f ASAP

    <dom> [25]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/BPWG-F2F-June-2008/

      [25] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/BPWG-F2F-June-2008/

    <jo> [26]Registration

      [26] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/BPWG-F2F-June-2008/

    jo: closing out meeting

    <manrique> see you

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Adam to reword scope section ref Widgets to clairy and
    introduce caveats [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Charles to review ISSUE-250 with a view to how this
    affects content of mobileOK scheme [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: jo to redraft definition of Included resources
    according to the points noted by Francois [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Jo to remind DKA that he was going to book a room at
    Vodafone for the Editorial Meeting [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-bpwg-minutes.html#action04]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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