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[minutes] BPWG Teleconference 2008-05-08

From: Jo Rabin <jrabin@mtld.mobi>
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 16:25:13 +0100
Message-ID: <C8FFD98530207F40BD8D2CAD608B50B4F8F3D5@mtldsvr01.DotMobi.local>
To: <public-bpwg@w3.org>

The minutes of today's teleconference are at [a] and copied as text below.

Jo

[a] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-minutes



        Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

08 May 2008

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          DKA, Scott, hgerlach, jeffs, adam, manrique, achuter, jo,
          miguel, nacho, abel, Ed_Mitukiewicz, Kai_Dietrich

   Regrets
          Rob, Martin, SeanP

   Chair
          DKA

   Scribe
          Alan, jo, achuter

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Mobile OK Pro
         2. [5]Introductions
         3. [6]BP 2.0
         4. [7]Accessibility doc
         5. [8]MobileOK Pro (bis)
         6. [9]CT Task Force Report
         7. [10]BP2 document
         8. [11]Logisitics for F2F
     * [12]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <trackbot-ng> Date: 08 May 2008

   <hgerlach> hi

   <DKA> Scribe: Alan

   <DKA> ScribeNick: Achuter

   <manrique> zakim berrueta is me

Mobile OK Pro

   No report, as Kai not present

   <Seungyun> This is Seungyun, sorry late join

   <jo> scribe: jo

Introductions

   dka: Scott Hughes has joined from Vodafone

   scott: Interested in Ajax etc ...

BP 2.0

   dka: Adam has volunteered to join Bryan as editor and we are very
   grateful

   adam: Have similar interests to Scott ...

Accessibility doc

   <achuter>
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/d
   rafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20080506/mwbp-wcag20.html

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20080506/mwbp-wcag20.html

   achuter: we got in a bit of a muddle during the restructuring, but
   now I have got round to doing the restructure
   ... how Mobile Best Practices help Accessibility
   ... should be much easier to understand, this is half of the
   original doc the other half is:
   ... in another doc
   ... [alan discusses structure of the document]

   <achuter>
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/d
   rafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20080506/mwbp-wcag20_helps.html

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20080506/mwbp-wcag20_helps.html

   achuter: and the other half is arranged under the best practices and
   how they help users with disabilities
   ... we still have WCAG1 -> Mobile to work trhough and also the WCAG2
   -Yeliz is doing that
   ... not ready for group review yet

   dka: do we need 2 docs for this?

   achuter: yes, they are differently structured
   ... complexity should not be a problem though their are more pages

   dka: as a developer, is this difficult to use?

   achuter: there is an overview which will explain which one you
   should use

   dka: is this in line with EOWG wants to do it?

   achuter: yes

   dka: what should we target for the F2F on this doc
   ... should we put on the agenda ... 6 weeks till F2F ... when should
   we target PWD?

   achuter: Shaun drew up a timetable which I can't find ...
   ... [scrabble scrabble]

   <achuter>
   [15]http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-mwbp-wcag#publication

     [15] http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-mwbp-wcag#publication

   achuter: [scrabbling stops]
   ... that link takes you to the schedule
   ... restructuring should have been done by 30th Apr is running 2
   weeks behind

   <Kai> abel_WsP&)l WsP&)l

   dka: like to review this for the F2F

   achuter: should be ready at the beginning of the week after next

   dka: sounds like a good plan, you won't be on call next week, if you
   can email before the next call after that then that would be good

MobileOK Pro (bis)

   Kai: we didn't get it all done ...

   manrique: working on the tests today so should be ready soon

   dka: let's put time on next week's agenda then
   ... can you publish a couple of days in advance of the call

   kai: I won't be able to work on this stuff
   ... next week may not happen

   dka: let's see what happens ... and we'll ... see if the doc is in a
   shape to review on Thursday and if not then we'll discuss the
   following week

   kai: I have to wait on Manrique and then everyone waits on me
   ... looking for any guidance from anyone on this

CT Task Force Report

   <scribe> scribe: achuter

   <scribe> scribe: Alan

   <jo> scribenick: achuter

   Jo: Progress is slow
   ... working toward new draft. Should be ready by next week. Last
   call WD in time for F2F.
   ... Hope to be redy for approval of LCWD at F2F.
   ... No further news about it today.

BP2 document

   <hgerlach> sorry, have to leave for the next meeting, bye

   <jo> issue-245?

   <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-245 -- ADC, A Wooden Stake and Some Garlic
   Needed -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng>
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/245

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/245

   Long ago we decided not to define an advanced delivery context

   Dan: The idea is that if a more advanced device is detected, then
   exploit its capabilities

   <jeffs> real-world ADC in common practice will slide naturally over
   time, and document should reflect that reality

   Dan: We made that decision, but for some reason the debate has been
   resurrected again
   ... We made that decision, but for some reason the debate has been
   resurrected again

   <jo>
   [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Apr/0090.htm
   l

     [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Apr/0090.html

   <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: ISSUE-245 ADC goes back in coffin and
   close ISSUE-245

   Jo: Last time, in April, we didn't take a resolution because (Kai?)
   was not present.

   <jeffs> IMHO we are saying "find out at runtime what the client can
   do"

   Jo: Think that an ADC definition would be out of date before the ink
   dry.
   ... Better to think in terms of low-tier, medium and high-tier
   devices
   ... Idea of ADC is counter-productive to the idea of taking
   advantage of all capabilities a device has to offer.

   <Kai>
   [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Apr/0061.htm
   l

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Apr/0061.html

   <jo> [low tier mid tier and high tier being determined by the needs
   of the application]

   Kai: Not wedded to the ADC concept, but think it is a mistake to
   kill it. So I will drop the idea now.

   <jo> [not by some arbitrary categorization that makes no reference
   to particular application needs]

   <jo> close ISSUE-245

   <jo> scribe: jo

   RESOLUTION: ISSUE-245 ADC goes back in coffin and close ISSUE-245

   <scribe> scribe: achuter

   issue-235?

   <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-235 -- Co Editor for Mobile Web Applications
   Best Practices (i.e. BP2) -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng>
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/235

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/235

   close ISSUE-235

   issue-246?

   <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-246 -- Name of BP2 / Relationship to BP1 -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng>
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/246

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/246

   Jo: Has been discussed on list
   ... Agreed that it would be "BP for mobile Web applications"

   <jeffs> +1

   <jeffs> "Mobile Web Applications"

   <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Name of BP2 remains formally speaking Best
   Practices for Mobile Web Applications and not BP2 because the latter
   would give the wrong impression about relationship with BP1 - but we
   will carry on calling it BP2 anyway

   <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Name of BP2 remains formally speaking Best
   Practices for Mobile Web Applications and not BP2 because the latter
   would give the wrong impression about relationship with BP1 - but we
   will carry on calling it BP2 anyway - and close ISSUE-246

   <jo> scribe: jo

   RESOLUTION: Name of BP2 remains formally speaking Best Practices for
   Mobile Web Applications and not BP2 because the latter would give
   the wrong impression about relationship with BP1 - but we will carry
   on calling it BP2 anyway - and close ISSUE-246

   <scribe> scribe: achuter

   <jo> issue-247?

   <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-247 -- Proposed Topics for BP2 -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng>
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/247

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/247

   <jeffs> I think we are talking about "location" and "identities"
   here

   <edm> I wonder if we would mention (and elaborate) on potential uses
   of DCCI to deal with dynamic properties/context...

   <scribe> ACTION: Jo to contact Tom Hume of Future Platforms about
   use of microformats [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html#action01

   <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-753 - Contact Tom Hume of Future
   Platforms about use of microformats [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-05-15].

   <adam> It's on the HTML5 roadmap I think.

   <jeffs> given this doc is in the mobile context, it seems important
   that we address location issues

   <scribe> scribe: achuter

   Adam: Google Gears API HTML 5

   Dan: Upcoming versions of browsers should have it as they are geared
   up for HTML 5

   [about location]

   <scribe> ACTION: Adam to get back to teh group with text about
   location [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html#action02

   <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-754 - Get back to teh group with text
   about location [on Adam Connors - due 2008-05-15].

   <jeffs> agree identity sep

   Jeffs: Need to address identity and location in this document

   Dan: concerned about the scope of the document, as these are such
   complex issues

   <jeffs> issue would be my suggestion

   Ed: Suggest dynamic properties. Supported in common browser.

   Jo: If there are no other implementations can not be best practice.

   Ed: There is another

   <Kai> Are we loosening the meaning of "best practice"?

   <Zakim> jo, you wanted to ask whether this is current good practice?

   Dan: would like to wait until Bryan is here

   Adam: Persistent storage. What happens when installing.
   ... Cases where content is HTML+CSS but still has install step.
   ... Looks like Bryan has removed section on declaring install size.

   <jeffs> given widgets are based on the same techs
   (html/css/javascript-based) as browser-based thingies and operate in
   same context (mobile), seems to me they fit here

   Dan: While we discussed widgets in Seoul, but decided there were too
   many platforms to be able to write BPs
   ... But can cover use of individual technologies.
   ... Can talk about it when Bryan is back, maybe next week.

   <edm> logistics for next f2f?

Logisitics for F2F

   <Kai>
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Meetings/Sophia/logistics.
   html

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Meetings/Sophia/logistics.html

   Dan: Logisitcs for next F2F
   ... François is putting together an email with logistics
   ... Two and half days or three?

   <DKA> trackbot-ng, make log minutes something whatever

   <Scott> bye

   <nacho_> bye everyone

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Adam to get back to teh group with text about location
   [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Jo to contact Tom Hume of Future Platforms about use
   of microformats [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]

     [25] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html#action02
     [26] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html#action01

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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