W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-bpwg@w3.org > March 2008

RE: Rethinking organization of the mobile-accessibility documents [was: Discussion on purpose of Mobile Accessibility document]

From: Carlos Iglesias <carlos.iglesias@fundacionctic.org>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:48:09 +0100
Message-ID: <09700B613C4DD84FA9F2FEA5218828190320EC91@ayalga.fundacionctic.org>
To: "Shawn Henry" <shawn@w3.org>, <achuter.technosite@yahoo.com>, "EOWG" <w3c-wai-eo@w3.org>
Cc: "Yeliz Yesilada" <yesilady@cs.man.ac.uk>, "MWI BPWG Public" <public-bpwg@w3.org>


Hi everybody,

 
> Thanks for getting us started re-thinking the overall purpose, audience,
> and organization of these documents, Alan.
> 
> I took a pass at updating the analysis document at
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-mwbp-wcag
> I think the 3 primary use cases for the documents are (where the "I" could
> be a developer, manager, policy maker, etc.):
> 1. I know WCAG 1.0 and now I also want to do MWBP.
> 2. I know MWBP, and now I also want to do WCAG 2.0.
> 3. I haven't done much with either accessibility or designing for mobile
> devices, and now I want to do both.
> 
> Question: How common is #2 - that is, are many people familiar with MWBP?

I also think the two main use cases are #1 and #3, but IMO a fourth one "I know MWBP, and now I also want to do WCAG 1.0" is as important as #3, at least on a short and medium term basis until WCAG 2.0 spreads over.

 
> Let's think about simplifying the documents for the primary use cases.
> Also, it would be good if we could provide for both these situations:
> - people who just need a quick, simple list and explanation of what they
> need to do
> - people who are interested in the knowing more about the issues
>
> For example, if I already meet WCAG and I just want the simplified list of
> what I need to do to also meet MWBP, I really don't want to wade through
> the benefits of one for the other, I just want the info on what of the
> MWBP I've already met and what I still need to do.

Completely agree.


> I also posted online updated drafts of the "Experiences" document, which
> Yeliz has been working on. Note that the 2 documents below have the same
> information, yet one is formatted in a table and the other is not.
> * Table-version: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/MWBP-WCAG/experiences-
> draft
> * Non-table-version: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/MWBP-
> WCAG/experiences2-draft
> 
> Let's also re-think what we want in this document. Perhaps some of the
> information that is currently in the technical document
> <http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-
> mwbp-wcag-20080314/> would be better located in the "Experiences"
> document?

Yes, in fact the information about additional benefits doesn't look like technical information at all, and thus may be more relevant for other accompanying documents like the "Experience" one, in a similar way to how the "Understanding" documents complement WCAG 2.0

 
> EOWG: Please send your thoughts to the EOWG list in the next day or two,
> and then let's try to finalize it on the EOWG teleconference this Friday
> so that Alan and Yeliz can re-organize the documents as needed.

As we (CTIC Foundation) said before, we are looking for collaborating on his work advance, contributing and helping on editorial staff if appropriate, but until now it has been quite complicated to follow the conversation if you're not a participant in both groups (EO and BP), because the activities have apparently spread over both of them.

Is there any plan to concentrate the activity on one of the groups (either EO or BP) with sporadic reviews from the other one? The reactivation of the former Task Force would be also a good option.


Regards,
 CI.

_____

Carlos Iglesias

Fundación CTIC
Parque Científico-Tecnológico de Gijón
33203 - Gijón, Asturias, España

teléfono: +34 984291212
fax: +34 984390612
email: carlos.iglesias@fundacionctic.org
URL: http://www.fundacionctic.org


> Yeliz Yesilada wrote:
> >
> >
> > I agree with Jo; I am also not sure what the proposed changes are. I
> > thought there are five documents:
> >
> > 1. Working on WCAG 2.0 and MWBP together;
> > 2. Starting from MWBP and extending/upgrading to WCAG 2.0
> > 3. Starting from MWBP and extending/upgrading to WCAG 1.0
> > 4. Starting from WCAG 1.0 and extending/upgrading to MWBP
> > 5. Starting from WCAG 2.0 and extending/upgrading to MWBP
> >
> > What would be the other two proposed documents?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Yeliz.
> >
> > On 14 Mar 2008, at 19:42, Jo Rabin wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I am all for simplifying it and making the document(s) more useful.
> >>
> >> But forgive me, I am not sure what this proposal means. How many
> >> documents do we end up with in total? What is the subject matter of
> each
> >> of them? I'd like to think that we could treat WCAG 1.0 and 2.0 in the
> >> same documents and so reduce the overall number of documents as well as
> >> complexity and possible confusion for the audience.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Jo
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: public-bpwg-request@w3.org [mailto:public-bpwg-request@w3.org]
> >> On
> >>> Behalf Of Alan Chuter
> >>> Sent: 14 March 2008 17:34
> >>> To: EOWG; MWI BPWG Public
> >>> Subject: Discussion on purpose of Mobile Accessibility document
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> For those who were not on the call: It became apparent that something
> >>> was very wrong with this page of the document [1]. There was no
> >>> agreement on whether it was for going from MWBP to WCAG or the
> >>> reverse.
> >>>
> >>> Following our discussion, and having stood back from the document for
> >>> a while I realised what I believe is the problem is that the documents
> >>> are structured around the mapping, not around what people are going to
> >>> use it for. For each BP there are two paragraphs:
> >>>
> >>> 1. How does it especially help users with disabilities?
> >>> 2. Does it help meet any WCAG 2.0 success criteria?
> >>>
> >>> While these appear to be slightly different takes on the same thing, I
> >>> think that they are quite different
> >>>
> >>> 1. Is about the accessibility benefits of MWBP and the case for
> >>> adopting from MWBP starting from WCAG  (I've done WCAG, what is the
> >>> accessibility justification for adopting some or all of MWBP?). From
> >>> WCAG to MWBP.
> >>>
> >>> 2. Is about the work involved in adopting WCAG starting from MWBP
> >>> (I've done MWBP, how much further do I have to go to comply with
> >>> WCAG?) From WCAG to MWBP.
> >>>
> >>> So while the *mapping* is from MWBP to WCAG, the *use of the document*
> >>> goes both ways. These two things should not be in the same document, I
> >>> think.
> >>>
> >>> So at the cost of expanding from five pages to seven, and turning it
> >>> inside out, I suggest splitting this up, so that we have:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Extending/Upgrading from WCAG to MWBP.
> >>>     * For each MWBP, the Accessibility Benefits of this BP (MWBP
> >>> mapped to accessibility)
> >>>     * For each WCAG SC, does this WCAG SC that I have done give also
> >>> me MWBP compliance? (WCAG mapped to MWBP)
> >>> 2. Extending/Upgrading from WCAG to MWBP.
> 
> Alan, #1 and #2 are the same. Did you mean one to be different from the
> other?
> 
> >>>     * For each WCAG SC, the Mobile Benefits of this WCAG SC (WCAG
> >>> mapped to MWBP)
> >>>     * For each MWBP, does this BP that I have done also give me WCAG
> >>> SC compliance? (MWBP mapped to WCAG)
> >>>
> >>> I don't think that this will be as complicated as it seems, and will
> >>> be easier to read.
> >>>
> >>> What worries me is that we've been looking at this for so long and not
> >>> noticed what the problem.
> >>>
> >>> regards,
> >>>
> >>> Alan
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> >>>
> >>
> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED
> >> -
> >>> mwbp-wcag-20080305/mwbp-wcag20.html#MINIMIZE_KEYSTROKES
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Alan Chuter,
> >>> Senior Web Accessibility Consultant, Technosite (www.technosite.es)
> >>> Researcher, Inredis Project (www.inredis.es/)
> >>> Email: achuter@technosite.es
> >>> Alternative email: achuter.technosite@yahoo.com
> >>> Blogs: www.blogger.com/profile/09119760634682340619
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> --
> Shawn Lawton Henry, W3C Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> about: http://www.w3.org/People/Shawn/
> phone: +1-617-395-7664
> e-mail: shawn@w3.org
Received on Thursday, 27 March 2008 13:48:51 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 27 March 2008 13:48:51 GMT