- From: Appelquist, Daniel, VF-Group <Daniel.Appelquist@vodafone.com>
- Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:33:56 +0100
- To: <public-bpwg@w3.org>
Hi all (and thanks François for posting the minutes) -
As this was our last teleconf of the year (next one scheduled for 3 Jan) I'd just like to try to sum up the work of the last year and set the stage for 2008. We accomplished an awful lot this year. The BPs made it to Proposed Rec. MobileOK Basic made it to Candidate Rec. The checker task force has been amazingly productive, bringing out the open source implementation and developing a whole new markup language. We began cracking this problem of transcoding proxies in the Content Transformation task force. We agreed our new charter and began operating in public, which has already brought benefits. Most recently we agreed a broad shape for our next major document - BP II - and began discussions on "mobile web applications" in partnership with the Open Ajax Alliance and its mobile task force. We began joint work with the WAI education and outreach group on the mobility-accessibility document and took this document into the main stream of the working group.
Next year, as I see it, our challenge is to pick up the pace a bit. We should have had a public working draft of the content transformation guidelines. Likewise for mobile accessibility. Likewise for BP2.
We need to figure out how to raise energy level in the group in order to tackle these challenges and I invite you all to think about this over the break.
I really look forward to working with you all in the New Year.
Thanks for a great year, Mobile Web fans!
Dan
--
Daniel K. Appelquist
+44 7748 111635
daniel.appelquist@vodafone.com
----- Original Message -----
From: public-bpwg-request@w3.org <public-bpwg-request@w3.org>
To: public-bpwg@w3.org <public-bpwg@w3.org>
Sent: Thu Dec 13 18:21:25 2007
Subject: [minutes] Thursday 13 December Teleconf
Hi,
The minutes of our teleconf today are available at:
http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html
and copied as text below.
François.
13 Dec 2007
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2007Dec/0007.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-irc
Attendees
Present
francois, jo, Dom, miguel, Adam, drooks, DKA, Shahriar,
Ed_Mitukiewicz, Sean_Owen, Kai_Dietrich, SeanP, PhilA,
achuter, Matt, nacho
Regrets
Magnus, Abel, Murari, Bruno
Chair
DKA
Scribe
drooks, dom
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]CT Task Force
2. [6]mobileOK Pro TF
3. [7]Accessibility document
4. [8]Call schedule over the holidays
5. [9]exiting CR for mobileOK Basic
6. [10]Good standing rules
7. [11]MWBP-related events
8. [12]Issues and actions
* [13]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
dka: outlines todays agenda...
CT Task Force
<edm> cnnot get thru zakim ...
<jo> [no progress in last week]
<dom> ACTION-608?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-608 -- Daniel Appelquist to recruit a TF lead
for CT -- due 2007-12-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[14]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/608
[14] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/608
dka: can anyone give us a run down of what been happening in CT TF?
... no chair found yet
... hopefully be next week we'll have found someone
<dom> (action-608 now due on 20071220)
dka: anyone want to be the chair?
... not much to update about the checker tf
mobileOK Pro TF
dka: was speaking at conference yesterday - there is lots of
interest / awareness of mobile in dev community and people are
becoming more aware of MOK
<dom> ACTION-610?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-610 -- Daniel Appelquist to check with Kai if
he's interested in leading the mobileOK pro TF and asking him to
prepare a TF charter if so -- due 2007-12-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[15]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/610
[15] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/610
<edm> More on LeWeb3 conference in Paris at
[16]http://www.leweb3.com/
[16] http://www.leweb3.com/
dka: now onto MOK Pro TF...
... do we meet criteria for a TF?
jo: kai was volunteered sa chair and to draft charter
<Kai> ACTION: Kai to write a charter for mobileOK Pro TF by January
[recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-612 - Write a charter for mobileOK Pro
TF by January [on Kai Scheppe - due 2007-12-20].
<dom> [I'll close ACTION-610 as a result]
<jo> [18]TF Rules
[18] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/#rules
<dom> trackbot-ng, close action-610
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-610 Check with Kai if he's interested in
leading the mobileOK pro TF and asking him to prepare a TF charter
if so closed
dka: not much to report at moment on MOK Pro
Accessibility document
<dom> ACTION-611?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-611 -- Daniel Appelquist to check with Shawn
and Alan on getting current doc as FPWD -- due 2007-12-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[19]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/611
[19] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/611
dka: document not yet ready for 1st public WD
... sean working on additional content for accessibility document
<dom> [I think this closes ACTION-611]
<dom> trackbot-ng, ACTION-611 closed
<jo> [nothing to add]
<dom> trackbot-ng, close ACTION-611
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-611 Check with Shawn and Alan on getting
current doc as FPWD closed
Call schedule over the holidays
<dom> [I won't be available either on Dec 20, 27, Jan 3]
dka: suggest we cancel call on 27th
<jo> +1 t cancelling 20 and 27 Dec
<dom> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: calls on Dec 20 and 27 canceled
<dom> RESOLUTION: calls on Dec 20 and 27 canceled
<Kai> yipee
exiting CR for mobileOK Basic
<dom> CR exit criteria:
<dom> * existence of ten highly visible mobileOK-compliant Web pages
representing a number of different applications;
<dom> * existence of a checker that checks each aspect of each test
specified in this document;
<dom> * existence of a test suite to verify the correct operation of
mobileOK checkers.
<dom>
[20]http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/CR-mobileOK-basic10-tests-20071130/
[20] http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/CR-mobileOK-basic10-tests-20071130/
dom: we need to define how to achieve our CR exit criteria
<dom> dom: we're ok for the checker, and I've started to work on the
test suite
<dom> ... but we need someone to look at finding the 10 highly
visible web pages
dka: we need to find some MOK compliant web pages
<Zakim> jo, you wanted to discuss new good standing rules and to say
that dotMobi can find some
<dom> ACTION: Jo to start collecting mobileOK web pages for mobileOK
CR - due January 10 [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-613 - start collecting mobileOK web
pages for mobileOK CR [on Jo Rabin - due 2007-01-10].
<Zakim> jo, you wanted to discuss new good standing rules
Good standing rules
jo: we've discussed some revised good standing rules
... a large number of members are not attending calls / contributing
... new rules are...
<dom> [22]Draft Good standing rules
[22] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/GoodStanding.html
jo: 1. non-attendance a meeting within 3 weeks of joining group
... 2. sending regrets for 3 consecutiive weeks
... 3. don't respond to surveys
4. non-attendance for 6 weeks
<Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to ask about current list of participants
<dom> [23]Participants in the Mobile Web Best Practices Working
Group
[23] http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=37584&public=1
<PhilA>
[24]http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=37584&public=1
[24] http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=37584&public=1
dom: good standing tracking will be automated
... bad standing will not be automated
MWBP-related events
<PhilA> I have a quick one
phila: trying to organise a joint w3c / gsma event in march
... should cover POWDER and MWBP
dka: been planning a mobile web developer event in london
<inserted> ScribeNick: dom
Issues and actions
-> [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/overdue
Overdue action items
[25] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/overdue
close ACTION-596
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-596 Encourage group participants to re-register
themselves or have their AC reps re-register them for group
membership in two weeks. closed
close ACTION-595
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-595 Encourage group participants to re-register
themselves or have their AC reps re-register them for group
membership in two weeks. closed
close ACTION-597
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-597 Formulate a poll on what exactly people are
planning on doing with mobileOK Pro, beyond issuing a mandate
(potentially) closed
<matt> dom++
close ACTION-598
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-598 Add to the poll people's intention to
participate in a MobileOK Pro Cram Session including dates for doing
this closed
ACTION-588?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-588 -- Jo Rabin to with Dan to raise this
document at next HCG meeting informing them of our intentions and
soliciting input -- due 2007-11-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[26]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/588
[26] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/588
DKA: it wasn't discussed on the HCG call, but I included it in my
report to the HCG
Dom: due updated to January 10, will have to be updated for next HCG
call presumably
close ACTION-601
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-601 Send email chasing to people to renew
closed
ACTION-592?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-592 -- Edward Mitukiewicz to report whether he
can be editor of the document who shall not be named -- due
2007-11-19 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[27]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/592
[27] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/592
Ed: we'll have a decision on this hopefully next week
<inserted> ScribeNick: drooks
dka: brian has indicated it looks ok
dom: how do we get this document started?
... do ed and brian need to put together a 1st draft?
dka: think we need more group input before 1st draft
ed: 1st step should be defining scope, this can be a group effort
dka: we discused this in boston...
<dom> [I just created ISSUE-229 as a result of this discussion:
"Scope of mobile web applications best practices"]
ed: boston minutes are good start but needs further input
<inserted> ScribeNick: dom
<francois> ACTION-581?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-581 -- Jo Rabin to to promote discussion on the
list and then produce editors draft based on discussion -- due
2007-10-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[28]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/581
[28] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/581
trackbot-ng, close ACTION-581
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-581 to promote discussion on the list and then
produce editors draft based on discussion closed
trackbot-ng, close ACTION-586
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-586 Raise ISSUE on setting criteria for group
sign off on mobileOK checker once the task force says it is done
with the work closed
-> [29]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/228
ISSUE-228 What Criteria for Checker Approval?
[29] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/228
ACTION-530?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-530 -- Edward Mitukiewicz to draft a page on
context and its effect on content authors etc -- due 2007-11-21 --
OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[30]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/530
[30] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/530
-> [31]http://www.w3.org/2007/07/20-bpwg-minutes.html#action02
Minutes where that action-530 was created
[31] http://www.w3.org/2007/07/20-bpwg-minutes.html#action02
Ed: let's pretend this action never existed
Jo: I think it would be useful to have such a document, actually
[I've just updated the due date to early January]
ACTION-593?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-593 -- Kai Scheppe to write a summary of
preliminary work to be done for this working group to focus on Best
Practices for Web applications -- due 2007-11-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[32]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/593
[32] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/593
Kai: thought I had done it, but don't see anything linked from it
... will look back at it
ACTION-594?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-594 -- Daniel Appelquist to coordinate mobileOK
Basic advancement, probably starting with a teleconf -- due
2007-11-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[33]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/594
[33] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/594
<PhilA> it was going to be a call with you, me and Marie Claire I
think
<PhilA> and kai, I assume
ACTION-594 date updated
<francois> ACTION-599?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-599 -- Alan Chuter to look at mailing list for
sharing information between BP and EO -- due 2007-11-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[34]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/599
[34] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/599
DKA: the mailing list exists (the TF mailing list), but we haven't
put it to use
Alan: perhaps having a shared mailing list isn't that necessary
... I can serve as a bridge between the two groups
DKA: we probably don't need it
trackbot-ng, close ACTION-599
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-599 Look at mailing list for sharing
information between BP and EO closed
ACTION-602?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-602 -- Jo Rabin to raise an issue on how useful
this spec will be without HTTP extensions of some form -- due
2007-11-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[35]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/602
[35] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/602
Jo: I raised that issue
(ISSUE-227)
close ACTION-602
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-602 Raise an issue on how useful this spec will
be without HTTP extensions of some form closed
ACTION-603?
<trackbot-ng> ACTION-603 -- Jo Rabin to find out how to liaise with
HTTP NG work -- due 2007-12-04 -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[36]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/603
[36] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/603
Jo: sent Mark Nottingham a long email, but didn't get a reply
<PhilA> I think you just join the BISHTTP list
<PhilA> I was on it for a short time, it's open
Jo: Dom gave me another contact that I haven't contacted yet
<PhilA> They had a f2f in Vancouver recently I think
<PhilA>
[37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2007OctDec/
[37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2007OctDec/
Dom: BISHTTP being presumably the list of the rechartered IETF WG
that works on revising HTTP
PhilA: the only requirement to join the WG is to join the mailing
list, actually
... pretty active mailing list
... it's the old HTTP gang again
Dom: they're "only" fixing HTTP 1.1, not creating HTTP 1.2
<PhilA>
[38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2007OctDec/0108
.html
[38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2007OctDec/0108.html
PhilA: indeed, they won't be adding new features
... they have a very restricted charter
DKA: how does that affect our ability to put mobileOK hints in HTTP
headers?
PhilA: I don't think they will help - the charter forbids them to
define new headers, IIRC
... it's unclear how this affects the status of promulgating the
Link: header
... I don't know that the IETF process is to push an internet draft
as RFC
<jo> [the CT group just wants to add some values for the
Cache-Control header]
-> [39]http://www.mnot.net/blog/2007/12/12/stale Mark Nottingham's
on extending the Cache-Control header
[39] http://www.mnot.net/blog/2007/12/12/stale
ACTION-606 and ACTION-607 marked as PendingReview
[discussions around ISSUE-222]
-> [40]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/alternatives-discovery.html
TAG Finding on Alternative Representations
[40] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/alternatives-discovery.html
<scribe> ACTION: Jo to restart discussion on the TAG finding
(ISSUE-222) on the public mailing list [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-614 - Restart discussion on the TAG
finding (ISSUE-222) on the public mailing list [on Jo Rabin - due
2007-12-20].
(ISSUE-227)
ISSUE-227?
<trackbot-ng> ISSUE-227 -- How Useful will the CT Guidelines Doc be,
without extensions to HTTP? -- OPEN
<trackbot-ng>
[42]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/227
[42] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/227
(13 messages exchanged on this topic in the TF)
Jo: there is mild support for going beyond Cache-Control and Vary
... my own view (which is not supported) is that if we only say so,
we may as well have said 3 months ago
DKA: I think we need to say something else
Jo: if it's clear than something less brute-force than
"no-transform" is needed (e.g. to allow compression by an
intermediate, or adapting the image format, but don't relay my stuff
out)
... then there is a need for something else
... the problem with no-transform in particular is [...]?
kai: are you going to give instructions on how to handle specific
parts of the content?
Jo: no, the idea on the table is to day that "Cache-control:
no-transform, ..." has a fail-safe interpretation for non-conforming
proxies
Kai: I'm wondering if we really have to worry about non-conforming
proxies
... and not deal with those that don't follow the rules
Jo: I agree-ish
... but there is a community agreement on how to fail safely these
instructions
... is it in scope for our charter to invent new values for the
cache-control header?
... it's clear we wouldn't want to invent new HTTP headers
... but having modifiers on the existing values might be OK-ish
q,
<DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: new values for cache control headers is
not new technology.
<DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We will take over the IETF.
<Kai> +1
<Zakim> Kai, you wanted to say that I think caching already
understood and used badly enough. We do not need to make it more
complicated but should focus on correct usage of what exists
<PhilA> Happy Christmas everyone
<jo> [and hanukkah]
<drooks> bye
<PhilA> bye
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Jo to restart discussion on the TAG finding
(ISSUE-222) on the public mailing list [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Jo to start collecting mobileOK web pages for mobileOK
CR - due January 10 [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Kai to write a charter for mobileOK Pro TF by January
[recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
Received on Friday, 14 December 2007 14:34:25 UTC