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[minutes] Minutes of Content Transformation Task Force Call 2007-10-02

From: Jo Rabin <jrabin@mtld.mobi>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:06:24 +0100
Message-ID: <C8FFD98530207F40BD8D2CAD608B50B4732D41@mtldsvr01.DotMobi.local>
To: <public-bpwg-ct@w3.org>

For pretty version see [1].

Jo

[1] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-bpwg-minutes.html


Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
2 Oct 2007

Agenda

See also: IRC log
Attendees

Present
    Jo, SeanP, Andrew
Regrets
    Rhys
Chair
    Jo
Scribe
    SeanPatterson

Contents

    * Topics
         1. Review of Action Items
         2. ACTION-551
         3. ACTION-552
         4. ACTION-557
         5. ACTION-558
         6. ACTION-566
         7. ACTION-567
         8. Sean's Contribution
         9. non standard headers
        10. Vary Header
        11. AOB
    * Summary of Action Items

 

 

<trackbot-ng> Date: 02 October 2007

<jo> Meeting: Content Transformation Task Force

<jo> scribenick: SeanPatterson
Review of Action Items

<jo> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/products/12

ACTION-550

Feedback from several people

<jo> Jo: Comments on how to take proposed text forward

<jo> SeanP: Have a response prepared to your comment (Jo) and am
preparing responses to others

<jo> ... how do we handle this usually

<jo> jo: not unusual to have divergent views and not unhealthy at this
stage

<jo> sean: will post responses with a view to driving forward on some
consensus

<jo> ... will try to get stuff out over this week
ACTION-551

Jo: Aaron has made a contribution on 9/22
... It was an outline of section 2.3
... No comments yet so we can't do anything yet.
ACTION-552

Andrew: Apologize for tardy response. Has some notes.

Jo: Go ahead and send the notes.

Andrew: Aware of amout of discussion of topic.
... Will get contribution in by next conf. call.

Jo: Aware of discussion as well.
ACTION-557

Jo: On me. Can close that.
ACTION-558

Jo: On Andrew.

Andrew: Sometimes don't get actions sent to me.
... Sometimes doesn't get each email to mailing list.

Jo: Looks like there is a problem on Andrew's end.

Andrew: Will check archives for email messages.
... Has raised issue; no contributions yet.

Jo: Can't close yet--mark it as pending.

Andrew: Sent an email on this action on 9/25.

Jo: Not showing up on Trackbot.
... It did show up on Trackbot.
ACTION-566

Jo: Have done half of this.
ACTION-567

Jo: On Rhys, he did that

<jo> ACTION: Jo to find out what has happened to the zakim slot
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-572 - Find out what has happened to the
zakim slot [on Jo Rabin - due 2007-10-09].
Sean's Contribution

<jo> (Jo notes that we are not quorate for a decision but useful to
discuss)

<jo> (Andrew notes debate and noted that there is a body of opinion in
favour of preserving original user agent, asks Sean for comment on the
problems with that)

<jo> Sean: main problem is that lots of web servers that return nothing
or "please upgrade browser if you send the original user agent

<jo> Andrew: any idea of how many sites do this

<jo> ... i.e. either we have a problem with blocking sites or with
mobile sites whichever way we do it so it would be useful to know some
numbers

<jo> Sean: ... the long tail of the Web won't change, whereas mobile
sites are assumed to be still under maintenance and so greater
possibility of change

<jo> ... I will ask for whatever data on this

<jo> Andrew: It would be useful if other WG colleagues could get a fix
on this

<jo> ... I note that dotMobi is doing "find" has dotMobi got any data on
this

<jo> Jo: yes, lots, so has Google I expect, I'll see what I can do, may
be in confidence if I can get anything

<jo> s/I'll see what/
non standard headers

<jo> Andrew: wonder if we should use non-standard headers at all

<jo> ... should we use the Via instead of X-Mobile-Gateway

<jo> Sean: the problem is that the comment field can be stripped from
Via

<jo> ... I know that Jo proposed a way of using Via, but there could be
quite a lot of info we want to add

<jo> ... which would be hard to do using Jo's proposal

<jo> ... e.g. multiple transformations servers - etc.

<jo> jo: I know we have been talking specifically at the HTTP header
level, necessarily because that's what a lot of the discussion is about,
but I think we should actually focus our efforts on developing Magnus's
work - i.e. first figure out who is saying what to whom, and then figure
how that maps to HTTP headers, existing or otherwise

<jo> sean: i agree with that approach

<jo> jo: I think we can state in principle we prefer not to invent new
HTTP headers but can't decide for now whether that is achievable or not

<jo> ... I suggested 8 different use cases for analysis of who needs to
say what to whom

<jo> ... but better to have that discussion by email

<jo> Sean: Would prefer Magnus to be present
Vary Header

Andrew: Jo, could you explain your use of Vary header--thought that i
could only be used in the context of cache

Jo: Can use Vary header for CT
... Says that server has variance of a particular URI
... is useful for saying that a server is an adapting server
... certainly does no harm of including it

Andrew: I think you are correct

Jo: At dotMobi we have suggested that people use it.
... If you masquerade the user agent and got back a Vary header, you
know that you are in trouble
... We've held off (at dotMobi) in making recommendations because of
this group

<jo> Sean: I agree that the Vary header can be used for that purpose

<jo> ... it's a reasonable use of it to signal that there are different
representations

<jo> [jo: at dotMobi we wanted the actions of the trancoding proxy to be
figured out in this group]
AOB

<jo> [none]

<jo> [call closed at 15:52 BST]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Jo to find out what has happened to the zakim slot
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

---
Jo Rabin
mTLD (http://dotmobi.mobi)
mTLD Top Level Domain Limited is a private limited company incorporated
and registered in the Republic of Ireland with registered number 398040
and registered office at Arthur Cox Building, Earlsfort Terrace, Dublin
2.
Received on Tuesday, 2 October 2007 15:07:00 GMT

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