W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-bpwg-ct@w3.org > October 2007

Re: ACTION-550: Draft some initial material for Section 2.3 of the Guidelines

From: Andrea Trasatti <atrasatti@mtld.mobi>
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 19:08:32 +0200
Message-Id: <FF3AB376-143A-497F-A958-77C485B6AB33@mtld.mobi>
To: public-bpwg-ct@w3.org

Hello Sean and all the team,
I'm joining the party a bit late, but I wanted to share some thoughts  
about the text proposed for this action.
I'm afraid I have different views on a number of topics, I'll try to  
keep it as short as possible.

I will report the full text, but in case other like me have just  
joined the list, the original e-mail from Sean Patterson is here:

> Chapter	Most content is not designed for mobile devices
> [CUT]
> "Regular web content frequently assumes that it will be displayed  
> using
> the hardware of a desktop computer.  Content transformation servers  
> can
> reduce the hardware requirements of the content so that it works  
> better
> on a mobile device."

I agree that today most of the content available on the web is not  
designed for mobiles, yet. I disagree that the objective of  
transcoding engines is to reduce the hardware requirements of web  
pages. The web and HTML would not require a lot of CPU power. Today's  
web sites are not suitable for mobile because they assume a bigger  
screen and a different input method in most cases, I think referring  
to "hardware" is not correct. I am sure many 3G operators would  
disagree about not being broadband and fully connected.
I think the value of transcoding engines can be in adapting images  
and layouts that are not meant for the mobile, overcoming Javascript  
if possible and so on.

> Chapter	Eliminates the need for a least common denominator  
> solution
> "One approach to the problem of the variation of mobile devices is to
> create a "least common denominator" page that works on all (or almost
> all) mobile devices. "

Could you please explain why would this approach surpass the LCD  
approach? Not that I think LCD is the best possible approach, but I  
don't think that building pages for desktop computer and going  
through a transcoding engine would make them look better and be more  
accessible on a mobile.
I think the techniques to make it possible for transcoding engines  
and on-client adaptation engines to work best is to use some kind of  
metadata in the markup such as using title and heading elements.

> Chapter	A content transformation server can do a better job  
> of following
> mobile best practices

I disagree with the entire paragraph. I am sorry, but I do not see  
how an automatic software can transform any content better that each  
individual owner of the content. The one who knows best about the  
content is the original author. For the task of best implementation  
of best practices, I think the place are authoring tools and software  
like CMS.
I suggest to remove this chapter.

> Chapter	The User-Agent header

I disagree. As stated previously, the one who knows best is always  
the content owner. If a site has decided to provide certain contents  
to mobile, the author will have some good reasons and should know  
what his users want.
I do not understand why you suggest to hide the user-agent string  
sent by the browser and then provide it as a secondary header. Either  
you think it should be hidden or don't. If it is provided as a  
secondary header the remote server can still recognize the browser  
and provide a different content invalidating your initial state. The  
entire chapter seems to be in contradiction. I think the user-agent  
string should be left as is. If the content transformation engine  
discovers that a server is able to provide good mobile content it  
should leave it as is even if it thinks it could do a better job with  
the device.

>	Identifying the mobile browser

If the group agrees with me about chapters and, I  
think this chapter and practice should be dropped.

> Chapter
> "This lets the browser and any other content transformation servers in
> the request/response"

Looks like the sentence is missing something.

> Chapter	Identification of mobile content

I think there's in general an issue here, because most server  
applying adaptation will NOT serve mobile content when the user-agent  
string specified in the request was one of a desktop. Google's GWT,  
according to my tests [1], reads the page content, if it finds the  
"link alternate" redirects the browser to the mobile page  
automatically. This is a possible approach, but would this require  
web designers to provide an alternate to each page on their servers?  
I think there's a bit of a chicken and egg issue, here.

> Also, the following text:
> "if the response content is identified as mobile, the content
> transformation server should be conservative and try to perform only
> non-layout and non-format changing transformations.  For example, it
> would be OK to accelerate the content (by removing non-layout
> whitespace, non-lossy compression, etc.), add a header and/or  
> footer to
> the page, apply content corrections, etc.  It would less desirable to
> remove HTML tables, change the size and/or format of an image, etc.
> However, if the content returned from the origin server uses features
> that the content transformation server "knows" that the client device
> does not support (e.g., by examining the User-Agent header sent the
> mobile web browser), it is permissible to make more extensive  
> changes to
> make the content more suitable for the client device.  For example, if
> an origin server returns an image in GIF format to a device that does
> not support GIF images, it would be OK for the content transformation
> server to transform the image into a different format that the client
> device did support."

I will mention again Google as this is a content transformation  
engine that anyone has access to, no matter what page or operator or  
device. They add a footer to pages transformed, and I have to say  
that, as a user, I understand the use of it. I think that anyway  
recommendation that says that transformation engines may add  
something to a page should be limited in what they can change.  
Google's approach is very conservative and simply adds basic  
information and a couple of simple links to the original source and  
the same page without images. I think that this document should give  
a direction about what is welcome and what is not. Off the top of my  
head some ideas:
- note that the content is adapted (as short as possible)
- link to non-transformed source
- a switch to turn adaptation on and off by default

I think most of these might fit in a footer. I would suggest to  
developers of transcoding engines to keep this as small as possible  
to avoid taking away memory. Accesskeys MAY be used ONLY IF NOT  
interfering with the interface of the site that is being transformed.

You mention that the transcoding engine knows better than the remote  
server about what the device and browser support and what not. I  
don't think you can be assured you always know best. Sites optimized  
for the iPhone have popped up all over US and soon in Europe, I  
believe some of them have done depp testing and will know A LOT about  
the device. I can imagine some sites optimizing the experience for a  
certain browser, think of Soonr and the interface optimized for Opera  

I see that Jo has already made some of these comments clear in  
previous replies. I like the idea of using the HEAD request, it's not  
very well known, but I think would really help in these cases to let  
the proxy know if it should or should NOT act.
As it was mentioned on some sites issuing a HEAD request prior to a  
GET might overload servers. I think transcoding engines should do  
their best to limit this and make sure they keep track of sites that  
have provided good mobile content.

I haven't seen anything about what the engine should do when a site  
is providing mobile content and how should the software recognize it.  
I think this is an important item if we agree on the idea that the  
software should try to identify content for mobiles, when available.

Last week dotMobi, the company I work for, has published some  
documents [2] [3] that I think are interesting for this conversation.

[1] http://blog.trasatti.it/2007/09/googles-gwt.html
[2] http://dev.mobi/node/611
[3] http://dev.mobi/node/612
[4] http://dev.mobi/files/ContentTransformation_consultative.html

Andrea Trasatti
Director of Device Intiatives mTLD

mTLD Top Level Domain Limited is a private limited company  
incorporated and registered in the Republic of Ireland with  
registered number 398040 and registered office at Arthur Cox  
Building, Earlsfort Terrace, Dublin 2.

The information contained in this message may be privileged and  
confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this  
message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent  
responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient,  
you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or  
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have  
received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by  
replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
Received on Monday, 1 October 2007 17:09:33 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 20:06:28 UTC