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RE: mobileOK Basic, overly restrictive tests (was: Re: please reivew mobileOK Basic Tests 1.0 (scripting, fallback, ...))

From: Jo Rabin <jrabin@mtld.mobi>
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:03:47 +0100
Message-ID: <C8FFD98530207F40BD8D2CAD608B50B43BBEC8@mtldsvr01.DotMobi.local>
To: "Simon Pieters" <zcorpan@gmail.com>
Cc: <public-bpwg-comments@w3.org>, <public-html@w3.org>

Some comments in-line below.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-bpwg-comments-request@w3.org
> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Simon Pieters
> Sent: 14 June 2007 06:36
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:21:16 +0200, Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
> > I think that's an interesting point, but the way it's phrased
> > doesn't help me track the status of it as well as I'd like.
> >
> > In stead of "The tests warn for things..." could you pick one
> > or two specific bits of text from the mobileOK tests document
> > that you disagree with?
> Ok.
>     3.15 OBJECTS_OR_SCRIPT (partial)
>     This test does not determine whether the document is still usable
>     without the objects or scripts.
>     If a script element is present, warn
>     ...
> For authors who want to comply with mobileOK (i.e., make the mobileOK
> validator not emit any warnings or errors) are effectively banned from
> using scripting at all, even though it's just one <script src> in the
> and it would increase the user experience for users who have scripting
> (some mobiles support scripting, too), and not affect those without
> scripting.
For clarity, compliance means not getting any FAILs. Warns are present
when it cannot be determined whether or not the author's intention will
be realised within the DDC. In the case of scripts, a warn is issued
because if the script represents an essential part of the user
experience, the author needs to know that the DDC will not realise their
intentions correctly. Even where mobile devices do support script some
operator gateways strip it out.

Warnings are an expected outcome for a wide variety of content.

>     3.18 POP_UPS
>     For each a, link, form, and base element:
>     If a target attribute is present,
>     If its value is not one of "_self", "_parent", or "_top", FAIL
>     PASS
> AIUI, mobiles don't support popups at all. So why is it a problem to
> target="_blank" for them? Because it adds 16 bytes to the page weight
> each occurance?
Because the author's intentions will not be realised correctly. In
addition, it is thought that in some cases this may cause a device to
fail, because of deficient implementations.

> > Also, could you attach or point to a text/example document, perhaps
> > from your existing research [1] that exemplifies the problem?
> I'm not sure what that would be. A tutorial for how to write
> javascript to show that it is possible to use scripts in a nice way,
> perhaps?
>     http://onlinetools.org/articles/unobtrusivejavascript/
> > ...
> Regards,
> --
> Simon Pieters
Received on Thursday, 14 June 2007 11:04:09 UTC

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