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Re: Virtual introductions re ODRL usage in the automotive world...

From: Renato Iannella <renato.iannella@monegraph.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 21:48:26 +1000
Message-Id: <FB16362F-7062-43E3-A166-F9FE5674B2D0@monegraph.com>
Cc: Benedict Whittam Smith <benedict.whittamsmith@thomsonreuters.com>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, public-autowebplatform <public-autowebplatform@w3.org>
To: ted@w3.org
Hi Ted…I find the best option is to develop example use cases for your purposes and specifically frame the stories using the concepts from the ODRL Info Model [1].

The ODRL CG would then be happy to review and look at mapping options and any gaps that a “Auto” Profile would capture.


[1] https://www.w3.org/TR/odrl-model/#infoModel <https://www.w3.org/TR/odrl-model/#infoModel>

> On 18 Jul 2018, at 01:47, Ted Guild <ted@w3.org> wrote:
> Thank you Benedict.
> I am adding our mailing list instead of trying to accurately paraphrase
> in a summary report and will do the same with Renato's message. We can
> loop in the ODRL CG whenever you feel appropriate. I think we need to
> come up with a clearer understanding of our needs first and will send
> to the CG list.
> Licensing and regulation are certainly factors for automotive. Data
> collection will be using in-vehicle computing resources and bandwidth
> to send to potentially multiple data warehouses. Those who incur those
> costs would want to recoup them. Data providers will in many cases seek
> compensation from the data consumers they are providing information.
> This information is deemed personal and highly regulated especially in
> the EU with GDPR. Even if there is no payment required for accessing
> information, the data consumer should be bound by license what they can
> redistribute to other parties. 
> Currently the telematics service providers are going the secret sauce
> route and that makes sense at present. Going forward will be different
> with the common data model our spec references, the OBD2 data port
> possibly going away and regulators likely requiring some information as
> the do for heavy vehicles not to mention all the business interests in
> this information.
> I reached out to Eric Prud'hommeaux to learn what they might be using
> for in the Healthcare and Life Sciences area. Challenge he conveyed in
> using policy languages for capturing user (patient) consent is
> communicating clearly and concisely the nuances of intricate
> permissions pertaining to specific data points and their permitted
> usage. We have the same need in automotive when dealing with an end
> user (driver). Fleet management companies will be able to handle
> reviewing more complex agreements.
> On Tue, 2018-07-17 at 11:07 +0000,
> benedict.whittamsmith@thomsonreuters.com <mailto:benedict.whittamsmith@thomsonreuters.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ted,
>> Thanks for getting in touch. I'm really excited about the challenges
>> the automotive sector will bring to big data.
>> The 'compare XACML and ODRL' question comes up a lot. So here's my
>> take:
>> XACML models access control decisions. ODRL models licenses and
>> regulations.
>> Imagine you had a complex, UNIX-style access control system and you
>> wanted to make some sense of it: use XACML.
>> Imagine you had a bunch on licenses or regulations you wanted to
>> express and enforce: use ODRL.
>> Our business problem at TR is to map from licenses and regulations to
>> access control decisions. To understand the licenses and regulations
>> we need ODRL. XACML has nothing to say.
>> To then make the access control decisions we could use XACML, but
>> ODRL has already taken us most of the way. The XACML is now repeating
>> the parts of the ODRL relevant to access control decisions, just in a
>> different/parallel formalism.
>> But the parts of XACML that ODRL does not touch are the architectural
>> elements: PDPs, PEPs, PIPs, … Here ODRL has nothing to say, so we're
>> borrowing from XACML.
>> Both standards need to be situated within wider information models.
>> We have one that formalises the relationship between:
>> * data resources;
>> * the supplier agreements and regulations that control their use;
>> * the content services we provide our customers;
>> * and the products we sell to them.
>> This allows us to guarantee compliance.
>> We have another that maps the permissions described by ODRL and the
>> actual underlying data models that physically describe the data
>> (stream topics, database rows ...).
>> This allows us to automate access control.
>> We're just at the start of this. TR is teetering on the edge of
>> looking to standardise all these models across the financial data
>> supply chain. But it's the age old debate: secret sauce or wider
>> enabler.
>> Hope this helps. Happy to answer any further questions,
>> Ben
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Ted Guild [ted@w3.org]
>> Sent: 16 July 2018 18:33
>> To: Renato Iannella
>> Cc: Whittam Smith, Benedict (TR Technology & Ops); Ivan Herman
>> Subject: Re: Virtual introductions re ODRL usage in the automotive
>> world...
>> I am also reading up on XACML to try to determine what might be more
>> suitable to our needs. I would be interested to learn your
>> impressions
>> on how they compare.
>> Also let me know if you are alright with me adding a public mailing
>> list to the cc.
>> On Wed, 2018-07-11 at 09:12 -0400, Ted Guild wrote:
>>> Thank you Ivan.
>>> Hello Renato and Benedict,
>>> Forgive the delay on the thread, timing was before a few days off
>>> and
>>> it got buried.
>>> This should be a relatively quick read to give you some
>>> background on a task force we recently started. There have only
>>> been a few calls so far. We already have some pieces of the big
>>> data puzzle for automotive.
>>> https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/2018/06/18/w3c-automot
>>> iv
>>> e-
>>> big-data-task-force/
>>> Wiki has the areas under consideration for exploration listed.
>>> Presently most of the interest is around consent capture, data
>>> contracts and ontology work on the data model.
>>> https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Data_tf
>>> I was encouraged to take a look at ODRL and met with Ivan. It
>>> looks very pertinent for granularly representing the types of
>>> relationships we want for indicating what information can be
>>> shared with which third parties plus some of our other potential
>>> needs. My understanding from Ivan is customized profiles for
>>> different purposes are necessary and you might be able to point
>>> me to one.
>>> The impression Ivan had is that ODRL has seen uptake in news and
>>> media industry. Is there wider interest or any more generic and
>>> ideally open source implementations? Commercial options also of
>>> interest but experimenting would be facilitated by something more
>>> readily available.
>>> I am pleased to hear the work on a next version is continuing in a
>>> CG.
>>> If this seems pertinent, or to explore further if it might be, some
>>> of
>>> us would like to attend a CG call or invite you to one of our task
>>> force calls.
>>> Any examples and insight appreciated.
>>> Regards,
>>> On Sat, 2018-06-30 at 21:20 +1000, Renato Iannella wrote:
>>>> Hi Ted, we would be happy to help out…
>>>> As Ivan said, we are “back” now in the ODRL Community Group and
>>>> revamping efforts to promote ODRL V2.2
>>>> Please let us know (email to the CG) what areas your group would
>>>> like
>>>> assistance/feedback on..
>>>> Cheers - Renato
>>>>> On 29 Jun 2018, at 23:36, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>>>>> Renato, Ben,
>>>>> please meet my colleague at W3C, Ted Guild, who is leading the
>>>>> work
>>>>> cooperating with the Automotive Industry at W3C. They recently
>>>>> had
>>>>> some work starting up that may lead to issues around data
>>>>> access
>>>>> and usage rights, which led them to a possible usage of ODRL. I
>>>>> gave him some information, but I think you two are way better
>>>>> positioned as I am as for the way it could be used in such a
>>>>> different area (I told Ted about the profiling mechanism, but I
>>>>> did
>>>>> not find any reference to an existing profile like IPTC's…). He
>>>>> was
>>>>> also wondering whether there are general implementations around
>>>>> that their community can use.
>>>>> I let him ask the more specific questions…
>>>>> Ted,
>>>>> Renato and Ben were the Working Group chairs of the PO&E
>>>>> Working
>>>>> Group that standardized ODRL; ODRL is now 'back' in the hands
>>>>> of
>>>>> the ODRL Community Group[3] which is also chaired by Renato.
>>>>> They
>>>>> are in a much better position than I am in providing you with
>>>>> up-
>>>>> to-date information…
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Ivan
>>>>> [1] https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/2018/06/18/w3c
>>>>> -a
>>>>> ut
>>>>> omotive-big-data-task-force/
>>>>> [2] https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Data_tf
>>>>> [3] https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>>>>> Publishing@W3C Technical Lead
>>>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>>>>> mobile: +31-641044153
>>>>> ORCID ID: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__
>>>>> orcid.org_0000-2D0003-2D0782-2D2704&d=DwIDaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-
>>>>> GVjSLmy8-
>>>>> 1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY&r=6zKsY0rYbamT39VLwFyiNRQq5kP9V8VfXNbeD0Gwl
>>>>> qvjGIQo1uv383jKtxD77PlM&m=Iiiwhjr938Qw9uP0owyLPzm5oy6HmdBASZvpZ
>>>>> CaE0Rw&s=j9cnH1h-mnEhISQ1reeNUJ9IX7IKnpJFeKRL_GvcT0g&e=
>> --
>> Ted Guild <ted@w3.org>
>> W3C Automotive Lead
>> http://www.w3.org
> -- 
> Ted Guild <ted@w3.org <mailto:ted@w3.org>>
> W3C Automotive Lead
> http://www.w3.org <http://www.w3.org/>
Renato Iannella, Monegraph
Co-Chair, W3C Permissions & Obligations Expression (POE) Working Group
Received on Thursday, 19 July 2018 11:48:57 UTC

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