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Re: TAG feedback on Web Audio

From: Chris Wilson <cwilso@google.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:17:28 -0700
Message-ID: <CAJK2wqWdYvbk2OLB=XPiEXJa-j=YzrMkZ7zNvGVc3JHB19UO_A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ehsan Akhgari <ehsan.akhgari@gmail.com>
Cc: Noah Mendelsohn <nrm@arcanedomain.com>, Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl>, Olivier Thereaux <Olivier.Thereaux@bbc.co.uk>, "robert@ocallahan.org" <robert@ocallahan.org>, Alex Russell <slightlyoff@google.com>, "public-audio@w3.org" <public-audio@w3.org>, "www-tag@w3.org List" <www-tag@w3.org>
Indeed, that's the kind of context elaboration I was suggesting.


On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Ehsan Akhgari <ehsan.akhgari@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Chris Wilson <cwilso@google.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm just saying "race condition" is a general term for a situation where
>> output is dependent on the sequence or timing of other events.  Racing is
>> inherent in an async platform with entropy in it; that doesn't make it bad.
>>  If this is explicitly about multithreaded unsynchronized data variable
>> access, that should be stated.
>>
>
> Race conditions and data races are different although there is an
> overlap.  Please see <http://blog.regehr.org/archives/490>.  I know that
> this terminology has caused massive confusion in this thread, and I'm sorry
> about that, but unfortunately I can't think of better terminology here.  :/
>
> --
> Ehsan
> <http://ehsanakhgari.org/>
>
>
>
>
>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Ehsan Akhgari <ehsan.akhgari@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Chris Wilson <cwilso@google.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In addition, I'd ask that you be more explicit than calling this
>>>> problem "data races", because there's clearly some explicit effect you're
>>>> trying to prevent.  Any asynchronously-programmable or event-driven system
>>>> can enable developers to introduce race conditions.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This problem is known as data races in the common multi-threaded
>>> terminology, but I'm personally not attached to that name, whatever other
>>> name which conveys what we mean is fine.  :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ehsan
>>> <http://ehsanakhgari.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Noah Mendelsohn <nrm@arcanedomain.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/29/2013 7:05 PM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Noah Mendelsohn<nrm@arcanedomain.com>
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >Again, I have no informed opinions on the specific merits, just
>>>>>>> suggesting a
>>>>>>> >useful role the TAG might play to clarify for the many members of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >community who are less expert on this than you are. Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>  I'm not sure we call out data races anywhere, it's something we just
>>>>>> don't do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, my recollection may be faulty, but I think that one of the
>>>>> reasons the TAG took the trouble to formalize things like the architecture
>>>>> document was the belief that it's easier to ask skeptics to stick to rules
>>>>> that have been written down, and especially those that have garnered formal
>>>>> consensus through something like the Recommendation track.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whether it's worth taking a guideline on data races all the way to Rec
>>>>> I'm not sure, but it seems that it would be worth setting it down formally,
>>>>> perhaps in a TAG Finding/blog post/Recommendation or whatever will get the
>>>>> right level of discussion, consensus building, and eventually attention.
>>>>>
>>>>> Certainly, of the many things that have come up recently relating to
>>>>> APIs, this one seems deeply architectural and very much within the TAG's
>>>>> remit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Noah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Wednesday, 31 July 2013 22:17:56 UTC

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