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Re: memory footprint of AudioBuffer data copies

From: K. Gadd <kg@luminance.org>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:04:23 -0700
Message-ID: <CAPJwq3U_28JRAk==43ObtfXc_=B1tBwc6h_iMnO33Jp7aud64g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Chris Wilson <cwilso@google.com>
Cc: Jer Noble <jer.noble@apple.com>, Joseph Berkovitz <joe@noteflight.com>, WG WG <public-audio@w3.org>
set() isn't automatically a race because you can have it acquire a mutex
that the mixer holds when it's using the buffer as an input or output for
mixing. Having a mutex acquired every time you set an element of a typed
array does not seem like something VM implementers would have been excited
to implement. The fact that timing is important is separate from the fact
that unsynchronized access to a buffer from multiple threads is risky.

However, you're correct that partially filling a buffer makes it possible
for uninitialized/old audio to be played back. This has been a problem with
almost every audio implementation I've ever interacted with, so maybe it's
not worth trying to solve it in the browser context where user JS can get
delayed by hundreds of milliseconds.


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:38 AM, Chris Wilson <cwilso@google.com> wrote:

> Um.  I'm seriously confused now.  If you're saying you can set() into a
> range of a currently-playing buffer, then that seems to introduce precisely
> the same timing race opportunities that the current model has; how is this
> different?
>
> If you're implementing a ring of buffers, and synthesizing (or copying)
> prior to them being required, that's fine; but that's no different than
> today.  The developer would still have to carefully manage timing and
> latency in order to not underrun or overrun their ring buffer.
>
> This highlights my point, that there are inherent race hazard
> possibilities in ANY asynchronous multi-threaded environment.  I've been
> opposed to making a change here primarily because I think "shared memory
> bad, neutering good" is about as true as "four legs good, two legs bad";
> certainly, creating an API that makes race side effects common would be
> bad, but I don't think we have that - and the need to avoid glitching in
> audio, and the constraints on the main thread in the environment we have
> today, makes this API an interesting challenge to design.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Jer Noble <jer.noble@apple.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 6:50 AM, Joseph Berkovitz <joe@noteflight.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jer,
>>
>> One of the main issues raised by Chris Wilson with respect to your
>> proposal was memory footprint with respect to bulk synthesis of large
>> AudioBuffers, and the overhead for copying them.
>>
>> Let me ask a leading question: isn't one of the side benefits of the
>> AudioBufferChannel.set() method the fact that it allows one to populate an
>> AudioBuffer in chunks of a manageable size? It seems to me that if bulk
>> synthesis can be performed in reasonable-size chunks, each of which is
>> passed to the set() method to be copied into the corresponding subrange of
>> the buffer, the maximum memory overhead due to copying can be constrained
>> to 2x the chunk size.
>>
>> If true, this doesn't completely remove Chris W's concern but it does
>> mean that a chunked approach to buffer synthesis can mitigate overhead in a
>> low-memory environment.
>>
>>
>> Yep.
>>
>> What's more, you probably wouldn't want to synthesize the AudioBuffers
>> entirely in advance either.  You'd synthesize a few chunks, schedule them
>> for their specific times, and as they finished playing, you would
>> synthesize additional chunks.  You might even implement a ringbuffer
>> structure, so that later chunks imposed no additional memory or GC costs.
>>  In that way, both the 2x chunk size would be mitigated, as would the
>> overall outstanding buffer size would be limited to the size of your
>> ringbuffer.
>>
>> However, this presumes an advanced developer who is concerned about
>> memory use.  A naive developer may still hit the 2x overall buffer cost by
>> decoding everything into a Float32Array up front, then copying into an
>> AudioBuffer.
>>
>> -Jer
>>
>>
>
Received on Tuesday, 30 July 2013 17:05:33 UTC

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