- From: Michiel Bijl (list) <michiel.list@moiety.me>
- Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:00:45 +0000
- To: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <77694951-10F5-4352-9E9A-6DAD96B18105@moiety.me>
Minutes for today’s meeting can be found as text in this e-mail or at this URL: https://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-aria-minutes.html
— Michiel
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
16 Feb 2017
[2]Agenda
[2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0033.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-aria-irc
Attendees
Present
scribe, Stefan, Joanmarie_Diggs, janina, MichaelC,
Joseph_Scheuhammer, ShaneM, jongund1
Regrets
Chair
Joanmarie_Diggs
Scribe
MichielBijl
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Testable statements - More tests in need of writing
than we realized!
2. [6]ATTA progress updates
3. [7]Getting started on manual testing
4. [8]TPAC
5. [9]CSUN
* [10]Summary of Action Items
* [11]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<joanie> agenda: this
<joanie> agenda: be done
<scribe> scribe: MichielBijl
<joanie> Testable statements assessment:
[12]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/00
34.html
[12] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0034.html
<joanie>
[13]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/00
27.html
[13] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0027.html
JD: that’s a link where he replied to my request
list of items literally doing a diff from the spec
<joanie>
[14]https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Test_Case_Coverag
e
[14] https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Test_Case_Coverage
This is the list that Michael Cooper compiled
JD: Start putting placeholders for all of the items
<joanie>
[15]https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements
[15] https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements
Rather than another wiki page
I’ve redone the Testable Statements page
I think we had 5 areas left
I think Rich asked Stefan to do them
At no point did Rich say that there would be a ±170
<joanie>
[16]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/00
34.html
[16] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0034.html
That has some assumptions
<joanie> 1. For new, *non-global* properties: We need a test
for each role that
<joanie> supports that new property.
<joanie> Rationale: We cannot assume that user agents use our
taxonomy
<joanie> programmatically in their implementations. Thus for
non-global
<joanie> properties, there's an excellent chance that we won't
get the
<joanie> implementation "for free"; instead, user agents will
likely have
<joanie> to add new support on a per-role basis.
<clown> +1
Joseph: Only see ?? for button
Do we only test button?
JD: That’s the next point we’ll get to.
Have only talked about non-global properties
I’m beyond curious and hope that people can prove me wrong on
point one?
<joanie> 2. For new, *global* properties: We just need to test
one representative
<joanie> role, plus any role for which there is special/custom
behavior
<joanie> related to that property.
<joanie> Rationale: Global properties without role-specific
special/custom
<joanie> behavior is something we *can* assume user agents will
not be
<joanie> implementing on a per-role basis. Thus because the
implementation
<joanie> itself is likely to be global, exhaustive testing is
not needed.
<joanie> Hurray!
JD: Example - on my platform, GTK, is like a widget toolkit, we
have placeholders, we have a mapping for it
Gecko never implemented that
It exposes an object attribute
<clown>
[17]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
riaPlaceholder
[17] https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaPlaceholder
In role description what the spec says it’s supported on
everything
It can’t be whitespace only, can’t be an empty string, and can
only be applied to an explicit or implicit role
Joseph: Shouldn’t we have examples where this is not as clear
Like role=application
JD: As long as it’s a role and the role description is valid
We could test like very last role
But I think that wouldn’t be worth all the trouble
Joseph: Is there a number of things that we’re missing?
<joanie> 3. For new roles: We just need to test non-global
properties supported
<joanie> on those roles:
<joanie> Rationale: See rationales 1 and 2 above.
JD: We just need to test non-global properties supported on
those roles
If it’s a global property on a role we get it for free
If it’s a non-global property we need to test it
<joanie>
[18]https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements
[18] https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements
Link to testable statements ⤴
JD: Priority number 1 is we need volunteers
Please, please, volunteer for as many test as you can
And fill in your name at the test
So we don’t get duplications
Some tests have “has questions”
Sometimes it boils down to “do we need to test this”
<joanie> In ARIA 1.1, aria-controls went from a supported to a
required attribute for combobox.
<joanie> QUESTION: Is this really testable? There is no
implicit value. The property was supported on combobox in 1.0,
so we do not need to test that. There is nothing in the ARIA
spec regarding what user agents need to do if the author fails
to provide a value.
JD: Joseph, can I ask you to go through the has questions?
And delete if it cannot be test?
Or update it if it can be tested
It’s really only 24
(if you don’t count the duplications)
MC: If “non-testable” is related to something in the spec
wouldn’t that be a spec issue
JD: *points to question earlier*
The difference is between “this is supported” and “author must”
You can’t test that
<joanie> figure (HAS QUESTION)
<joanie> The figure role was added in ARIA 1.1
<joanie> QUESTION: The figure role has no non-global ARIA
attributes. It is Joanie's assumption that global attributes do
NOT also need to be tested for figure because presumably the
user agent implementation of global attributes is not done on a
per-role basis. If this is correct, only the role-mapping test
below is needed.
JD: We have a 170 tests, but that is based of the three
assumptions that we’re going through in this call
<ShaneM> we definitely do not need to test every last global
attribute on every element...
JD: Are you suggesting that we leave the questions?
Can you do one so I know what you mean?
Are you saying we need to test all global attr?
Stefan: no
JD: Are you suggesting we document it elsewhere
Stefan: yes, that would be better
JD: Do you agree that given the consensus that it’s okay for
Joseph to remove the question
Stefan: he can do what he want
JD: if the group consensus is that we need to test all the
things
We should
JS: If it had global attributes we just tested the role mapping
JD: Are you willing to eliminate the has questions?
JS: Yes
MC: I do not believe we ever wrote ?? down
If we did it’s buried in a wiki somewhere
JS: We can put it at the top of this new page
<joanie>
[19]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/00
34.html
[19] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0034.html
Reminder: volunteers to please sign-up at the wiki
<Stefan> :)
<jongund1> can you hear me?
JD: Stefan can I ask you to edit the wiki, and add your name to
everything that you’re going to test for
Stefan: yeah, but not today, will do later
JD: A lot of my writing had you in mind
... Anyone else who can volunteer
JG: I don’t have anymore bandwidth
Working on ATTA for MSAA and IA2
If we do start manual testing
I do have two additional people that can help with that
One is a mac user
JD: Any given testable statement singular has multiple
assertions
Testable statements - More tests in need of writing than we realized!
ATTA progress updates
JD: Microsoft had indicated that they could provided manual
testers
But won’t be doing an ATTA
But the test cases were hardcoded in
It does not in any way reflect the shared API
MS had indicated that they could convert their new testing to
ATTA
They kept not doing it
And a couple weeks ago they said they wouldn’t do it
What I wound up doing is I replied to ?? and ??
Boiled down to “thank you, we’ll take you up on your generous
offer of the manual testers”
But would be awesome if you could provide an ATTA for your
platform
I’m starting to figure out how to drill down into the a11y tree
on mac
JG: One of my students has ?? working
We can now respond to PRs and get PRs
JD: Appreciated!
Getting started on manual testing
JD: Started writing documentation for manual testing, not done
yet
Might also need a version for people supporting volunteers
If you have people that can test, manually, whose attention to
detail is high, we want them!
JD: Any questions
*crickets*
TPAC
CSUN
It’s not next week but the week after right?
<jongund1> I will be at CSUN
JS: Right
<jongund1> I will probably not be available while I am at CSUN
JD: We’re meeting next week, and plan to have a meeting on
March 2nd
If we don’t have enough people on the call we’ll cancel
Please please please please please please please start writing
testable statements
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
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[21] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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Present: scribe Stefan Joanmarie_Diggs janina MichaelC Joseph_Scheuhamme
r ShaneM jongund1
Agenda: [23]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/003
3.html
Found Date: 16 Feb 2017
Guessing minutes URL: [24]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-aria-minutes.html
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[23] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0033.html
[24] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-aria-minutes.html
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Received on Thursday, 16 February 2017 19:01:16 UTC