W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-aria@w3.org > August 2017

RE: Clarification regarding live regions and hidden elements

From: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 23:33:38 -0700
To: "'Bryan Garaventa'" <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>, "'Steve Faulkner'" <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: "'Aaron Leventhal'" <aleventhal@google.com>, "'Alexander Surkov'" <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>, "'ARIA Working Group'" <public-aria@w3.org>
Message-ID: <04b001d31fc7$960f1480$c22d3d80$@gmail.com>
Agree. I remember this being discussed at length at an f2f a few years ago. I think it was at Mozilla. It seemed there was consensus regarding intent but then it was not realized in implementations. I don’t know what we have in the test suite for this.

 

 

From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 12:29 AM
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>; Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
Cc: Aaron Leventhal <aleventhal@google.com>; Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>; ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Clarification regarding live regions and hidden elements

 

Yes please.

 

 

Bryan Garaventa

Accessibility Fellow

Level Access, Inc.

Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com <mailto:Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com> 

415.624.2709 (o)

www.LevelAccess.com <http://www.LevelAccess.com> 

 

From: Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 10:37 PM
To: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com <mailto:a11ythinker@gmail.com> >
Cc: Aaron Leventhal <aleventhal@google.com <mailto:aleventhal@google.com> >; Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com> >; Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com <mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com> >; ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org> >
Subject: Re: Clarification regarding live regions and hidden elements

 

There is the disputed case of display:none combined with aria-hidden=”false” which creates an accessible object in some browsers but not others.

 

Suggest we need to get consensus on this issue and interop among browsers so it does not cause issues. 




--

Regards

SteveF

Current Standards Work @W3C <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/> 

 

On 24 August 2017 at 01:21, Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com <mailto:a11ythinker@gmail.com> > wrote:

And, slightly off topic, There is the disputed case of display:none combined with aria-hidden=”false” which creates an accessible object in some browsers but not others. So, this combination will yield inconsistent results when used with aria-live.

 

From: Aaron Leventhal [mailto:aleventhal@google.com <mailto:aleventhal@google.com> ] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 11:49 AM
To: Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com> >
Cc: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com <mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com> >; Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com> >; ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org> >


Subject: Re: Clarification regarding live regions and hidden elements

 

Exception would be if there is a reason it must be exposed, for example it is focusable/focused even though marked as aria-hidden.

 

Aaron

 

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 2:40 PM Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com> > wrote:

+1. The browsers are not expected to expose the hidden content afaik.

 

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Aaron Leventhal <aleventhal@google.com <mailto:aleventhal@google.com> > wrote:

I'm in agreement -- my understanding was that the only time hidden content is exposed is when pointed to by aria-labelledby/describedby.

 

You could, however, style a live region offscreen or behind something and it should be spoken.

 

Aaron

 

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 1:04 PM Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com <mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com> > wrote:

Thanks, that’s what I thought as well.

 

I can’t find anything in the spec that says this however, which makes it difficult for me to enter bugs against it.

 

 

Bryan Garaventa

Accessibility Fellow

Level Access, Inc.

Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com <mailto:Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com> 

415.624.2709 <tel:(415)%20624-2709>  (o)

www.LevelAccess.com <http://www.LevelAccess.com> 

 

From: Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com> ] 
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 12:57 AM
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com <mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com> >
Cc: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org> >
Subject: Re: Clarification regarding live regions and hidden elements

 

If an element is meant to be explicitly hidden, should it remain an active live region regardless?

 

I don't believe it should, but this does not mean that its contents cannot be referenced via aria-labelledby/describedby when hidden. 




--

Regards

SteveF

Current Standards Work @W3C <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/> 

 

On 19 August 2017 at 00:25, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com <mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com> > wrote:

Hi,
Today I was asked whether live regions are allowed on hidden elements, and I thought this was a simple no, but in looking at the spec and testing, it appears people's understanding of this is all over the map.

E.G An element like a div that includes  CSS display:none or visibility:hidden, or the HTML5 hidden attribute, or even aria-hidden="true".

If an element is meant to be explicitly hidden, should it remain an active live region regardless?

Thanks,
Bryan


Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
Level Access, Inc.
Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com <mailto:Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com> 
415.624.2709 <tel:(415)%20624-2709>  (o)
www.LevelAccess.com <http://www.LevelAccess.com> 

 

 

 
Received on Monday, 28 August 2017 06:34:04 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Monday, 28 August 2017 06:34:05 UTC