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RE: Clarification regarding live regions and hidden elements

From: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:28:30 +0000
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
CC: Aaron Leventhal <aleventhal@google.com>, Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>, ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Message-ID: <BN6PR03MB2785BAE47EA29EE9B84EB2A0F29A0@BN6PR03MB2785.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Yes please.


Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
Level Access, Inc.
Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com
415.624.2709 (o)
www.LevelAccess.com

From: Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 10:37 PM
To: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
Cc: Aaron Leventhal <aleventhal@google.com>; Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>; Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>; ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Clarification regarding live regions and hidden elements

There is the disputed case of display:none combined with aria-hidden=”false” which creates an accessible object in some browsers but not others.

Suggest we need to get consensus on this issue and interop among browsers so it does not cause issues.

--

Regards

SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>

On 24 August 2017 at 01:21, Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com<mailto:a11ythinker@gmail.com>> wrote:
And, slightly off topic, There is the disputed case of display:none combined with aria-hidden=”false” which creates an accessible object in some browsers but not others. So, this combination will yield inconsistent results when used with aria-live.

From: Aaron Leventhal [mailto:aleventhal@google.com<mailto:aleventhal@google.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 11:49 AM
To: Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com<mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>
Cc: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>>; Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com<mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com>>; ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>

Subject: Re: Clarification regarding live regions and hidden elements

Exception would be if there is a reason it must be exposed, for example it is focusable/focused even though marked as aria-hidden.

Aaron

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 2:40 PM Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com<mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com>> wrote:
+1. The browsers are not expected to expose the hidden content afaik.

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Aaron Leventhal <aleventhal@google.com<mailto:aleventhal@google.com>> wrote:
I'm in agreement -- my understanding was that the only time hidden content is exposed is when pointed to by aria-labelledby/describedby.

You could, however, style a live region offscreen or behind something and it should be spoken.

Aaron

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 1:04 PM Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>> wrote:
Thanks, that’s what I thought as well.

I can’t find anything in the spec that says this however, which makes it difficult for me to enter bugs against it.


Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
Level Access, Inc.
Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com<mailto:Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com>
415.624.2709<tel:(415)%20624-2709> (o)
www.LevelAccess.com<http://www.LevelAccess.com>

From: Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com<mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com>]
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 12:57 AM
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>>
Cc: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: Clarification regarding live regions and hidden elements

If an element is meant to be explicitly hidden, should it remain an active live region regardless?

I don't believe it should, but this does not mean that its contents cannot be referenced via aria-labelledby/describedby when hidden.

--

Regards

SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>

On 19 August 2017 at 00:25, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>> wrote:
Hi,
Today I was asked whether live regions are allowed on hidden elements, and I thought this was a simple no, but in looking at the spec and testing, it appears people's understanding of this is all over the map.

E.G An element like a div that includes  CSS display:none or visibility:hidden, or the HTML5 hidden attribute, or even aria-hidden="true".

If an element is meant to be explicitly hidden, should it remain an active live region regardless?

Thanks,
Bryan


Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
Level Access, Inc.
Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com<mailto:Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com>
415.624.2709<tel:(415)%20624-2709> (o)
www.LevelAccess.com<http://www.LevelAccess.com>



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