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Re: Clarification regarding live regions and hidden elements

From: Aaron Leventhal <aleventhal@google.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 15:00:20 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+1LECRaK8Rh3X4t0azuyO=YctXe0oQrb_KEYCbwBu4ThXGZ1A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>, ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Right. If an element changes from visible to hidden, or is inserted, a
relevant event is fired on the newly created accessible object. This means
that if something suddenly becomes visible, and is live, it should be
spoken by a screen reader.

A similar thing happens for an alert, although at least in MSAA, there is a
special alert event that is fired.



On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 10:57 AM Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
wrote:

> hi all looking at the docs a bit more:
>
> 5.1.1 Excluding Elements from the Accessibility Tree
> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#exclude_elements2
>
> Elements, including their descendent elements, that have host language
>> semantics specifying that the element is not displayed, such as CSS
>> display:none, visibility:hidden, or the HTML 5 hidden attribute.
>
>
>  further into the spec it states in regards to live regions:
> 5.8.2 Changes to document content or node visibility
>
> Fire these events for node changes where the node in question is an
>> element and has an accessible object
>> <http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#dfn-accessible-object>:
>
>
> which suggests to me that hidden elements do not have accessible objects
> and therefore associated live region event notifications should not be
> fired.
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> Current Standards Work @W3C
> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>
>
> On 23 August 2017 at 15:27, Aaron Leventhal <aleventhal@google.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm in agreement -- my understanding was that the only time hidden
>> content is exposed is when pointed to by aria-labelledby/describedby.
>>
>> You could, however, style a live region offscreen or behind something and
>> it should be spoken.
>>
>> Aaron
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 1:04 PM Bryan Garaventa <
>> bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, that’s what I thought as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I can’t find anything in the spec that says this however, which makes it
>>> difficult for me to enter bugs against it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bryan Garaventa
>>>
>>> Accessibility Fellow
>>>
>>> Level Access, Inc.
>>>
>>> Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com
>>>
>>> 415.624.2709 <(415)%20624-2709> (o)
>>>
>>> www.LevelAccess.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com]
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 19, 2017 12:57 AM
>>> *To:* Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>
>>> *Cc:* ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Clarification regarding live regions and hidden elements
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If an element is meant to be explicitly hidden, should it remain an
>>> active live region regardless?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't believe it should, but this does not mean that its contents
>>> cannot be referenced via aria-labelledby/describedby when hidden.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> SteveF
>>>
>>> Current Standards Work @W3C
>>> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 August 2017 at 00:25, Bryan Garaventa <
>>> bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Today I was asked whether live regions are allowed on hidden elements,
>>> and I thought this was a simple no, but in looking at the spec and testing,
>>> it appears people's understanding of this is all over the map.
>>>
>>> E.G An element like a div that includes  CSS display:none or
>>> visibility:hidden, or the HTML5 hidden attribute, or even
>>> aria-hidden="true".
>>>
>>> If an element is meant to be explicitly hidden, should it remain an
>>> active live region regardless?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>>
>>> Bryan Garaventa
>>> Accessibility Fellow
>>> Level Access, Inc.
>>> Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com
>>> 415.624.2709 <(415)%20624-2709> (o)
>>> www.LevelAccess.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Wednesday, 23 August 2017 15:01:00 UTC

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