Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 Role Landmark

ok. So, it is up to Alex and Jamie. 

I would like to promote my core-asm branch either way ASAP. I just need a decision from Alex and/or Jamie.

Rich

Rich Schwerdtfeger




> On Aug 29, 2016, at 2:21 PM, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Rich.
> 
> Regarding your question, what I stated here still stands:
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2016-August/002095.html <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2016-August/002095.html>
> 
> Will authors expect that? Will users expect it? Will NVDA provide that?
> I don't know the answers to those questions. But if the answers turn out
> to be "yes," then I would want to support it in Orca. In which case I
> need the reverse relationship. If the answers are "no," then I see no
> need to do so in Orca either.
> 
> --joanie
> 
> On 08/29/2016 02:03 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>> Jamie, Alex,
>> 
>> There is far too much resistance to concatenating the description with
>> the error message. It will never carry with the working group. I am
>> sorry. Right now we are holding up ARIA in HTML in ARIA.
>> 
>> Can we agree:
>> 
>> 1. For the Firefox mapping of the form element, and ARIA 1.1 form role,
>> IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK is exposed with xml-roles="form"
>> 2. /IA2_ROLE_FORM/ will not be deprecated for backward compatibility
>> 3. We expose IA2_RELATION_DETAILS and IA2_RELATIONSHIP_ERROR_MESSAGE -
>> It that you both agreed on separate relationships and these were the
>> names Alex suggested.
>> 
>> Beyond that I need an answer on the reverse relationship that Joanie
>> requested. It you can't agree I will leave them out of the IA2 spec. I
>> do believe that Joanie might implement the reverse relationship for her
>> platform but I have not asked. Joanie?
>> 
>> Alex, would you please send me an updated IDL for IA2?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Rich
>> 
>> 
>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>    ----- Original message -----
>>    From: Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com>
>>    Sent by: accessibility-ia2-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>    To: Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
>>    Cc: Joseph Scheuhammer <clown@alum.mit.edu>, Stefan Schnabel
>>    <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>, Steven Faulkner
>>    <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, IA2 List
>>    <Accessibility-ia2@lists.linux-foundation.org>, ARIA Working Group
>>    <public-aria@w3.org>
>>    Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 Role Landmark
>>    Date: Sun, Aug 28, 2016 7:20 AM
>> 
>>    I would also argue that, today, navigating a web page should be by
>>    regional landmarks first. They create a table of contents for the
>>    page and we advise all IBM developers to ensure all content is
>>    contained within a landmark. This way content is not orphaned. To
>>    that end a form should be treated as a landmark and should appear in
>>    the table of contents used for navigation by ATVs. 
>> 
>>    We are way beyond one off landmarks (just a form) and starting with
>>    heading navigation today. 
>> 
>>    Rich
>>    Rich Schwerdtfeger
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>    On Aug 25, 2016, at 10:51 AM, Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>>    <richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com> <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    Well it is used by the most pervasive apps on the planet using IA2
>>>    already. Chrome, FF, and eclipse-based apps.
>>> 
>>>    Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>    On Aug 25, 2016, at 10:45 AM, Alexander Surkov
>>>    <surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com> <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>>
>>>    wrote:
>>> 
>>>>    I definitely agree that IA2 needs a flexible mechanism to expose
>>>>    roles, I'm just not sure it should be xml-roles object attribute.
>>>> 
>>>>    On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>>>    <richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com> <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>        Alex, those object attributes should have been included in
>>>>        IA2 a long time ago. I in no way see these as a hack. Eclipse
>>>>        uses them too.
>>>> 
>>>>        Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>        On Aug 25, 2016, at 9:49 AM, Alexander Surkov
>>>>        <surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
>>>>        <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>        This is true, however xml-roles is not standard attribute in
>>>>>        IA2, it's rather a browser specific hack to expose the
>>>>>        semantics, that otherwise was missed. So if the API provides
>>>>>        a way to expose an element semantics more fully, then I'd
>>>>>        say it's the way to go.
>>>>> 
>>>>>        Having said that, I'm also concerned about
>>>>>        backward-compatibility issue.
>>>>> 
>>>>>        On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Joanmarie Diggs
>>>>>        <jdiggs@igalia.com <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com> <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>            Sorry for being spammy, but with respect to the loss of
>>>>>            semantics: The
>>>>>            type of landmark is still being exposed via object
>>>>>            attribute. So I'll
>>>>>            still know if an ATK_ROLE_LANDMARK is a form, or
>>>>>            navigation, or ....
>>>>> 
>>>>>            On 08/25/2016 10:24 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Alex, all.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't recall saying "kill the form role" in ATK. We
>>>>>            have no plans to
>>>>>> deprecate ATK_ROLE_FORM. Instead, I believe I said
>>>>>            something along the
>>>>>> lines of the following:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Q: Should HTML's form element be treated like a
>>>>>            landmark for the
>>>>>>   purposes of navigation?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If Yes: Map it to ATK_ROLE_LANDMARK
>>>>>> If No: Continue mapping it to ATK_ROLE_FORM
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --joanie
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 08/25/2016 10:08 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
>>>>>>> I don't think Jamie argues that FORM is not a
>>>>>            landmark. The point is
>>>>>>> that FORM is a form and also a landmark. IA2 provides
>>>>>            a special FORM
>>>>>>> role, which is used both for ARIA and HTML currently,
>>>>>            and adopted by
>>>>>>> browsers and screen readers.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If we use weaker role for forms, then we loose
>>>>>            semantics as Jamie
>>>>>>> pointed out, and we make a not backward compatible
>>>>>            change. All JAWS and
>>>>>>> other commercial screen reader users will have to buy
>>>>>            a new screen
>>>>>>> reader version.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ATK gained this role, because it doesn't have a
>>>>>            mechanism to fetch all
>>>>>>> landmarks on a page other than query it by role. And
>>>>>            thus they are ok to
>>>>>>> sacrifice ATK form role for performance reasons I
>>>>>            think. Note, ATK world
>>>>>>> doesn't have so acute problem of backward
>>>>>            compatibility as IA2 has, so
>>>>>>> they have a larger room for changes. IA2 landmark
>>>>>            role is a ATK toll to
>>>>>>> keep IA2 compatible with, this is a primary reason,
>>>>>            if I do understand
>>>>>>> that right. However I'm not confident too that we
>>>>>            should take ATK path
>>>>>>> and kill a form role too.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 3:34 AM, Schnabel, Stefan
>>>>>>> <stefan.schnabel@sap.com <mailto:stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
>>>>>            <mailto:stefan.schnabel@sap.com <mailto:stefan.schnabel@sap.com>>
>>>>>            <mailto:stefan.schnabel@sap.com <mailto:stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
>>>>>            <mailto:stefan.schnabel@sap.com <mailto:stefan.schnabel@sap.com>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Hi James,____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    currently Jaws treats forms like regions as
>>>>>            landmarks, i.e. showing
>>>>>>>    them in its landmarks dialog, too. They do this
>>>>>            for reason, page
>>>>>>>    structure is very clearly revealed by this. I
>>>>>            consider this as a
>>>>>>>    strong feature and do not like this changed.____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    The logic behind that is the pragmatic thinking
>>>>>            that forms are
>>>>>>>    landmark-like, too. And a “navigation” landmark
>>>>>            can contain fairly
>>>>>>>    complex content, too, not just a list of links.____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Best Regards____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Stefan____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    *From:*James Teh [mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>>
>>>>>>>    <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>>>]
>>>>>>>    *Sent:* Donnerstag, 25. August 2016 00:33
>>>>>>>    *To:* Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>
>>>>>            <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>    <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>
>>>>>            <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>>>>
>>>>>>>    *Cc:* Alexander Surkov
>>>>>            <surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
>>>>>            <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>    <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
>>>>>            <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>>>; Joseph Scheuhammer
>>>>>>>    <clown@alum.mit.edu <mailto:clown@alum.mit.edu> <mailto:clown@alum.mit.edu <mailto:clown@alum.mit.edu>>
>>>>>            <mailto:clown@alum.mit.edu <mailto:clown@alum.mit.edu>
>>>>>            <mailto:clown@alum.mit.edu <mailto:clown@alum.mit.edu>>>>; Joanmarie Diggs
>>>>>>>    <jdiggs@igalia.com <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com> <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>>
>>>>>            <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com> <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>>>>;
>>>>>            IA2 List
>>>>>>>    <Accessibility-ia2@lists.linux-foundation.org <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linux-foundation.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linux-foundation.org <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linux-foundation.org>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>             <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linux-foundation.org <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linux-foundation.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linux-foundation.org <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linux-foundation.org>>>>;
>>>>>            ARIA Working
>>>>>>>    Group <public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>> <mailto:public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>>>; Steven
>>>>>>>    Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
>>>>>            <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com>>
>>>>>            <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
>>>>>            <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com>>>>
>>>>>>>    *Subject:* Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 Role
>>>>>            Landmark____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Hi Rich,____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    I understand the reason for the use of the
>>>>>            landmark role for
>>>>>>>    role="form". However, I disagree with the HTML
>>>>>            form element being
>>>>>>>    mapped to the landmark role because semantics are
>>>>>            lost. The fact
>>>>>>>    that something is a form has more semantic value
>>>>>            than just being a
>>>>>>>    landmark. Still, if the spec already requires
>>>>>            this, I guess we have
>>>>>>>    little choice but to comply at this stage.____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Jamie____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    On 25/08/2016 3:08 AM, Rich Schwerdtfeger wrote:____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        Jamie,  ____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        The point is we want ALL the landmarks to be
>>>>>            treated the same
>>>>>>>        way for ATVs. So, first we determine that it
>>>>>            is a landmark. Then
>>>>>>>        we go to xml-roles to determine the type of
>>>>>            landmark. ____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        Otherwise, we need a special case for a form.
>>>>>            That is what we
>>>>>>>        are trying to avoid. For these reasons
>>>>>            ATK/ATSPI created a
>>>>>>>        landmark role first. ____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        The HTML the form element now uses the ARIA
>>>>>            mappings for the
>>>>>>>        form role. See "Use WAI-ARIA mapping” under
>>>>>            the form element.
>>>>>>>        This is for all platforms.____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>             https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html>
>>>>>            <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>             <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html>
>>>>>            <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html>>>____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        We do understand that non-browser
>>>>>            applications may still use the
>>>>>>>        older Form role mapping as would older
>>>>>            browser versions. It is
>>>>>>>        for these reasons that our definition of
>>>>>            deprecation is that it
>>>>>>>        has not gone a way but rather it is going to
>>>>>            this new preferred
>>>>>>>        mapping. ____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        Best,____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        Rich____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        Rich Schwerdtfeger____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            On Aug 23, 2016, at 7:35 PM, James Teh
>>>>>            <jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org> <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>>
>>>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>>>> wrote:____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            If you believe that role="form" has no
>>>>>            semantic value other
>>>>>>>            than being a landmark, then let's go
>>>>>            ahead and map it to
>>>>>>>            IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK. On the other hand, the
>>>>>            HTML form tag
>>>>>>>            *does* have semantic value other than
>>>>>            being a landmark, so
>>>>>>>            I'd argue it should be IA2_ROLE_FORM.____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            On 24/08/2016 5:22 AM, Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>>>>            wrote:____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                We are not asking that IA2_ROLE_FORM
>>>>>            be deprecated
>>>>>>>                altogether. Even with ARIA we have
>>>>>            some attributes that
>>>>>>>                re deprecated but that is meant so
>>>>>            that there will be a
>>>>>>>                replacement solution. An example is
>>>>>            the drag and drop
>>>>>>>                aria properties. For ARIA browser
>>>>>            conformance testing to
>>>>>>>                exit Candidate Recommendation we will
>>>>>            be testing for
>>>>>>>                IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK on form roles.  ____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                Rich Schwerdtfeger____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                    On Aug 18, 2016, at 9:56 PM,
>>>>>            James Teh
>>>>>>>                    <jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>> <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>>>>
>>>>>>>                    wrote:____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                    __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                    On 11/08/2016 2:58 AM, Alexander
>>>>>            Surkov wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                    ____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                        1) adding IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK
>>>>>            and____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                    Yes.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                    ____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                        2) deprecating IA2_ROLE_FORM?____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                    I'd argue that there is more
>>>>>            semantic value in a
>>>>>>>                    "form" than just the fact that it
>>>>>            is a landmark.
>>>>>>>                    This probably doesn't apply to
>>>>>            ARIA (at least for
>>>>>>>                    now), since role="form" is
>>>>>            defined as only a
>>>>>>>                    landmark. However, I'd argue it
>>>>>            does apply to the
>>>>>>>                    HTML form tag. So, I'm fine t not
>>>>>            use IA2_ROLE_FORM
>>>>>>>                    for ARIA role="form", but I'm
>>>>>            dubious about
>>>>>>>                    deprecating it altogether,
>>>>>            including for the HTML
>>>>>>>                    form tag.
>>>>>>>                    Jamie
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                    --
>>>>>>>                    James Teh
>>>>>>>                    Executive Director, NV Access Limited
>>>>>>>                    Ph +61 7 3149 3306
>>>>>            <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>> <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>>
>>>>>>>                    www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>>>            <http://www.nvaccess.org/ <http://www.nvaccess.org/>> <http://www.nvaccess.org/ <http://www.nvaccess.org/>>
>>>>>>>                    Facebook:
>>>>>            http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
>>>>>            <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>>
>>>>>>>                    <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
>>>>>            <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>>>
>>>>>>>                    Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>>>>>                    SIP: jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>> <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>>>____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>                __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            ____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            -- ____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            James Teh____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            Executive Director, NV Access Limited____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            Ph +61 7 3149 3306
>>>>>            <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>>
>>>>>            <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>>____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>>>            <http://www.nvaccess.org/ <http://www.nvaccess.org/>> <http://www.nvaccess.org/ <http://www.nvaccess.org/>>____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            Facebook:
>>>>>            http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
>>>>>            <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>>
>>>>>>>            <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
>>>>>            <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>>>____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            Twitter: @NVAccess____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            SIP: jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>> <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>>>____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>        __ __
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    ____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    -- ____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    James Teh____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Executive Director, NV Access Limited____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>>
>>>>>            <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>>____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/> <http://www.nvaccess.org/ <http://www.nvaccess.org/>>
>>>>>            <http://www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/> <http://www.nvaccess.org/ <http://www.nvaccess.org/>>>____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
>>>>>            <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>>
>>>>>            <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
>>>>>            <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>>>____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Twitter: @NVAccess____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    SIP: jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>> <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>>>____
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
>>>>>> Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>>>>>            <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>            https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2>
>>>>>            <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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Received on Monday, 29 August 2016 19:25:17 UTC