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Re: Re: Seeking feedback on draft of section on naming and describing

From: Ann Abbott <annabbott@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 14:06:13 -0500
Message-ID: <CABP-TdAPMug7upfGC3XDwJOUFC1k4zV6z8knZ67wBMeSwmu=6g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Carolyn MacLeod <Carolyn_MacLeod@ca.ibm.com>
Cc: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, "public-aria-practices@w3.org" <public-aria-practices@w3.org>
Good catches, Carolyn!

Kind Regards,
Ann
annabbott@gmail.com
512-451-8267


On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 1:23 PM Carolyn MacLeod <Carolyn_MacLeod@ca.ibm.com>
wrote:

> Great feedback from Ann.
> Here's a few more:
>
> 1. Typo, aria-labeledby with one l in "5.3.2.3 Naming with Referenced
> Content Via aria-labeledby"
>
> 2. Consider simplifying:
> "There are certain elements that get their name from the content they
> contain."
> by removing a couple of words, as follows:
> "Certain elements get their name from the content they contain."
>
> 3. Use "affects" with an "a" instead of "effects" with an "e" in the
> following sentence:
> "The aria-label attribute effects assistive technology users..."
>
> 4. Clarify the following sentence:
> "Note that while using aria-labelledby is similar in this situation to
> using an HTML label element with the for attribute, one significant
> difference is that browsers do not automatically make clicking on the label
> activate the element; that is an author responsibility."
> as follows:
> "Note that while using aria-labelledby is similar in this situation to
> using an HTML label element with the for attribute, one significant
> difference is that browsers do not automatically make clicking on the
> labelling element activate the labelled element; that is an author
> responsibility."
>
> 5. "inputtype="checkbox"" needs space, and needs to be in <code> element
>
> 6. Consider changing "such as" to "including" in:
> "It has the highest precedence when browsers calculate accessible names,
> i.e., it overrides names from child content and all other naming
> attributes, such as aria-label."
> so that it reads:
> "...all other naming attributes, including aria-label."
>
> (I stopped reading at the first To-do).
>
> Carolyn
>
>
> ----- Original message -----
> From: Ann Abbott <annabbott@gmail.com>
> To: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
> Cc: "public-aria-practices@w3.org" <public-aria-practices@w3.org>, Ann
> Abbott <annabbott@gmail.com>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Seeking feedback on draft of section on naming and
> describing
> Date: Tue, May 14, 2019 11:24 AM
>
> Review  of
> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/zcorpan/labelling-describing/aria-practices.html#names_and_descriptions
>
> Sectioin 5. Providing Accessible Names and Descriptions:typo in second
> sentence. " While doing so is straight forward for most elements, technical
> mistakes that can have devistating impacts..." should be "While doing so is
> straight forward for most elements, technical mistakes that can have
> devastating impacts..."
>
> Sectioin 5. Providing Accessible Names and Descriptions: bullets within
> this section should be formatted as EITHER sentence case OR title case,
> match the heading of specific subsection and.listed in order of preference.
> Change to numbered list from bulleted list to denote preference order.
> Should probably be two lists: one for naming and a second list for
> describing. Also each listitem should be a link to that specific subsection
> which should also be ordered by preference. .
> Example using title case and two lists ordered by preference:
>
>    - Naming
>
>
>    1. Naming by Encapsulation with a Label.
>    2. Naming by Referencing Content Via aria-labelledby.
>    3. Naming with a String Attribute Via aria-label.
>    4. Naming with Child Content.
>    5. Naming with Legends and Captions.
>    6. Fallback Names Derived from Titles and Placeholders.
>
>
>    - Describing
>
>
>    1. Describing by Referencing Content with aria-details.
>    2. Describing by Referencing Content with aria-describedby.
>    3. Fallback Descriptions Derived from Titles and Placeholders. (Note:
>    no section exists for this. Either add section or remove bullet.)
>
> Sectioin 5.3.1.3 Rule 3: Prefer Native Techniques follows Section 5.3.1.2
> Rule 2: Prefer Visible Text but, based on order of preference, 5.3.1.3
> Rule 3: Prefer Native Techniques should be listed first.
> Reorder subsections under 5.3.2 Naming Techniques to match order of
> listitems under Sectioin 5. Providing Accessible Names and Descriptions.
>
> Because naming and describing are two different constructs, care must be
> taken to not confuse the reader by using 'describing' or 'description' or
> "descriptiveness" when discussing or defining naming.
>
>    - 5.3.1.5 Rule 5: Compose Brief, Useful Names
>
>    In the same way that visually crowded screens reduce usability,
>    excessively long or insufficiently distinct and descriptive (remove
>    "and descriptive") accessible names can make a user interface very
>    difficult, or even impossible, to use for someone who relies on a
>    non-visual form of the user interface. In other words, for a web experience
>    to be accessible, the names must be effective. The below section on Composing
>    Effective and User-friendly Accessible Names
>    <https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/zcorpan/labelling-describing/aria-practices.html#naming_effectively>
>    provides guidance for striking an effective balance between brevity and
>    descriptiveness (change "descriptiveness" to "effectiveness" or
>    "usefulness").
>
> #4 Warning under 5.3.2.2 Naming with a String Attribute Via aria-label:
> typo
> "When a user interface is translated into multiple languages, ensure that
> aria-lable values..." should be " When a user interface is translated
> into multiple languages, ensure that aria-label values..."
>
> 5.3.2.3 Naming with Referenced Content Via aria-labeledby includes a
> "To-do" for code examples.
> #1 Warning under 5.3.2.3 Naming with Referenced Content Via aria-labeledby:
> typo
> " The aria-labelledby property cannot be chained, i.e., if an element
> with aria-labelled by references..." should be " The aria-labelledby
> property cannot be chained, i.e., if an element with aria-labelledby
> references..."
>
> All subsequent sections contain To-do notations, indicating they are not
> yet complete - review is pending completion.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Ann
> annabbott@gmail.com
> 512-451-8267
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 2:33 AM <a11ythinker@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I’d like to discuss the naming and describing section on Tuesday. Please
> read the current draft, which is about 80% complete, here:
>
>
> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/zcorpan/labelling-describing/aria-practices.html#names_and_descriptions
>
>
>
> This is a really important section. Please give it a read so we can have
> substantive discussion.
>
>
>
> At this point, I think I have built all of Jon’s feedback into the
> outline. Although, not all the content is complete; there is still several
> to-do’s related to that. There are some other placeholder to-do items as
> well.
>
>
>
> Some goals include:
>
>    1. Comprehensive: all important topics/issues should be addressed.
>    2. Easy to read: clarity of language and simplicity of examples is
>    paramount.
>    3. Easy to scan for specific information; an information architecture
>    that is easy to follow.
>    4. Practical, practical, practical …
>    5. Witout using anti-patterns, help people avoid naming blunders.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:06:49 UTC

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