Re: [XBL] "Semantics"

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Doug Schepers wrote:
> 
> Using such an overloaded term, though, please consider changing the text 
> a bit, something like this:
>
> "In this specification, the term 'semantics' is used to refer to the 
> processing model of elements, attributes, events, and DOM interface 
> members, as defined by their indicated specifications; for example, this 
> specification defines the semantics of XBL elements."
> 
> The phrase "intrinsic meaning" just opens up a huge can of worms, and I 
> think that the specification is clearer without it.

The intrinsic meaning is more than just the processing model. For example 
the intrinsic meaning of <html:p> is its "paragraphness". XBL can't change 
that. That's what the spec is attempting to say.


> I actually don't think that it's wrong for a W3C spec to be 
> technologically ideological, as long as it is a shared ideology.  As 
> hotly debated a term as "semantics" is unlikely to reflect the views of 
> most or all of the membership of the W3C, which this specification 
> represents.
> 
> I would encourage finding another term that meets your needs, or a more 
> qualified term such as "processing semantics".

By defining the term, the discussion has now moved to the phrase 
"intrinsic meaning".


> If I use XBL to change a list into the seeming of a paragraph, or a 
> <rect> into a <circle>, I have not changed the way it is processed by 
> the UA... but I have changed the way it is understood by the user.

But you haven't changed the underlying meaning. It's still a list. It's 
still a rect.

Consider a simpler HTML example:

   <ol>
    <li> Apples
    <li> Oranges
   </ol>

...with this CSS:

   li { float: right; }

The result is this rendering:

   Oranges Apples

...instead of:

   1. Apples
   2. Oranges

...but it is still, intrinsically, a list. If you were to say "what is the 
second item in the list?", the answer would be "Oranges", not "Apples".


Or consider this SVG snippet:

   <circle cx="0" cy="0" r="10" fill="10"/>

...with this CSS:

   circle { display: none; }

It's still a circle. It doesn't render, but it's still a circle. If you 
searched for all the circles in the relevant SVG document, it would still 
be one of them.


Just like CSS, XBL cannot affect the underlying, intrinsic meaning of the 
markup it is being applied to, only its presentation and behaviour.


> My comment will be satisfied if wording functionally equivalent to my 
> example at the top is used, and the term "semantics" is qualified in 
> use.

I have marked your comment as not resolved in the disposition of comments.

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

Received on Thursday, 11 January 2007 00:59:00 UTC