Re: Magnified Caption Files

Hi Jim, John,

Looking at that Brightcove press release it is clear that it is intended for the US market. Subtitles and captions are perhaps surprisingly cultural in nature, with different common practices worldwide. The FCC's requirement to be able to change foreground colour would render all UK subtitles unusable, since foreground colour is used to demarcate change to speaker; the choice of colours is designed to avoid colour recognition issues.

In my view, changes that allow text to wrap onto additional lines make that text less accessible. For me this is a good example of bad! The focus is only on the text display and not on the overall viewing experience.

It clearly allows the user to choose, say, black text on a transparent background, with the result that much of the text would almost certainly be unreadable. You may say that is the user's choice, which is fine, as long as they can read the relevant UI to back out of it!

Also, what it appears not to permit is the user to take the authored settings which are likely designed to make the text readable to the majority of people, and can make sure that every subtitle is readable, for the video on which it is intended to be composited. Again, this is going to make a worse experience for the user.

Of course the user has other choices too, like using a larger screen, that fall out of scope of the player software.

In terms of standards conformance, all the above notwithstanding, there's no reason why a player could not apply these or other customisations against the authored subtitles even if that makes the player deliberately non-conformant with the standard in some respects, regardless of the subtitle format used.

Kind regards,

Nigel


From: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>>
Date: Thursday, 8 February 2018 at 23:37
To: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu<mailto:jimallan@tsbvi.edu>>
Cc: W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures <public-apa@w3.org<mailto:public-apa@w3.org>>, public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org<mailto:public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>>, Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk<mailto:nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>>
Subject: Re: Magnified Caption Files

Hi Jim,

I just tested that Brightcove video on my Samsung Note 8, and I *was* able to enlarge the captions on my device. FWIW.

JF

On Feb 8, 2018 4:23 PM, "Jim Allan" <jimallan@tsbvi.edu<mailto:jimallan@tsbvi.edu>> wrote:
comments inline

On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 3:28 PM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>> wrote:
Hi Jim & LVTF,

Thanks for this - much appreciated.

I was able to find a live instance of the Brightcove player with the caption settings control (click on the CC button to expand the menu), and was pleasantly surprised to see it supported magnification up to 400% - woot woot!!
​another plus for me is seeing ​

​an implementation (several) of UAAG 1.1.6 Use Configurable Text for Time-based Media Captions: and 1.1.7 Allow Resize and Reposition of Time-based Media Alternatives  (https://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG20/#gl-access-alternative-content)

Q: while SC 1.4.4 excludes captions specifically, would 'magnified captions' be covered by SC 1.4.10 Reflow, even if indirectly?

​Hmm...  that's interesting.​ We did not call out or specifically remove captions, however browser zoom does not impact captions much.  they grow with with video when zoomed. In my testing with zoom and youtube the 400% captions created by the player were significantly larger than zooming the video.  different mechanisms and perhaps different user agents.  How ever, at least in youtube, if I change the setting to make captions 400% they wrap automagically! double WOOT!!
I think in answer to your question... perhaps indirectly. different mechanism. the permutations are complicated. sticking with youtube...
browser at 100%, video is roughly 25% of the screen. captions default to 100%. If I go to full screen video goes to 200%, and captions get a bit bigger - doesn't look 200%.- I didn't get out my ruler. I can still go into the player settings and change the captions to 200%. The already larger captions (because of full screen) will now double in size. I could go on... but too many variables. The bottom line is -  You don't lose content and you don't scroll horizontally - so it works like it should.
I thought this would be a boon for mobile. alas no. there are no settings for captions other than on/off in the app or desktop view. One hopes soon. Today the desktop.... tomorrow the phone!

@nigel, have you seen this?

  *   Press Release: https://www.3playmedia.com/2014/05/09/brightcove-responds-user-control-mandate-launching-customizable-closed-captions/

  *   Live Example: https://www.3playmedia.com/solutions/features/integrations/brightcove-integration/


JF

On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 2:49 PM, Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu<mailto:jimallan@tsbvi.edu>> wrote:
Hi John,
We had a good discussion about this today on the LVTF call [1].
The LVTF does not believe that author testing with screen magnification will have any benefit for users. Screen magnification software will pixelate captions as it does the video and pictures. We don't know of anything the author could do to the captions that would prevent the pixelation.

It seems the issue has been taken over by laws and technological advancements because of CVAA and 2014 FCC rules mandating user control of caption adjustments [2]. As examples, see 3PlayMedia's discussion of user interface controls for caption adjustments [3] and YouTubes caption settings [4]. Users are able to adjust captions to a significant degree.

1. https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2018Feb/0014.html

2. http://www.fcc.gov/document/closed-captioning-quality-report-and-order-declaratory-ruling-fnprm

3. https://www.3playmedia.com/2014/05/09/brightcove-responds-user-control-mandate-launching-customizable-closed-captions/

4. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/100078?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en


Jim Allan, Chair Low Vision Task Force.

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 2:46 PM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>> wrote:
(copying the WCAG Low Vision TF)

All,

As you are possibly aware, we are currently closing off some old comments with the VTT Working Group (with spill-over to the TTML / IMSC Working Group) around the ability to enlarge caption text to support Low Vision users.

Sylvia Pfeiffer responded with the following:


If I understand correctly, you'd like me to add authoring guidance around magnification and its potential impact.

Could it be done with a single paragraph such as:
"Authors of WebVTT caption and subtitle files are encouraged to test the rendering of their files using Assistive Technology. Specifically, the use of magnification tools by low-vision users may require editing their files to allow for sufficient space within cue lines and cue line heights. It is recommended to allow for a 200% magnification without clipping."

My personal opinion is that this is effectively what we seek (Ref: WCAG SC 1.4.4 Resize Text), but before I respond more formally to the GitHub issue (https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/426) I'd welcome some feedback.

LVTF, does this sound right? LV members, have you encountered something like this previously? (the ability to enlarge caption files independent of the video?)

APA - are we comfortable with Sylvia's proposal? Would something like this also meet our needs with the TTML / IMSC group?

Given that the VTT WG are keen on disposing with all comments, I'd like to try and resolve this one fairly quickly.

Thoughts?

JF
--
John Foliot
Principal Accessibility Strategist
Deque Systems Inc.
john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>

Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion



--
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+W.+45th+St.,+Austin,+Texas+78756&entry=gmail&source=g>
voice 512.206.9315<tel:(512)%20206-9315>    fax: 512.206.9452<tel:(512)%20206-9452> http://www.tsbvi.edu/

"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964



--
John Foliot
Principal Accessibility Strategist
Deque Systems Inc.
john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>

Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion



--
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+W.+45th+St.,+Austin,+Texas+78756&entry=gmail&source=g>
voice 512.206.9315<tel:(512)%20206-9315>    fax: 512.206.9452<tel:(512)%20206-9452> http://www.tsbvi.edu/

"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964