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Minutes of APA call 2018-08-08

From: Gottfried Zimmermann \(Lists\) <zimmermann@accesstechnologiesgroup.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 13:08:52 -0400
To: "'W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures'" <public-apa@w3.org>
Message-ID: <018401d42f3a$7ca1bc90$75e535b0$@accesstechnologiesgroup.com>
HTML format: https://www.w3.org/2018/08/08-apa-minutes.html 
Text format: See below.

Best regards,


 Prof. Dr. Gottfried Zimmermann
Mobile User Interaction


      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

     Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

08 Aug 2018


          janina, marisa, gottfried, MichaelC, JF, IanPouncey





     * [2]Topics
         1. [3]Agenda Overview; Announcements
         2. [4]Charter Status Update
         3. [5]TPAC 2018
         4. [6]CAPTCHA Rewrite Update
         5. [7]Publishing & Transcript Intersections
         6. [8]CSS Update
         7. [9]new on TR
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     * [11]Summary of Resolutions

   <scribe> scribe: Gottfried

Agenda Overview; Announcements

   Janina: Planned conversation on publishing.
   ... Related conversation coming from RQTF about supporting
   math, chemistry, and others

Charter Status Update

   <scribe> New charter:

     [12] https://www.w3.org/2018/08/apa-charter

   John: Leonie encouraged other groups to join APA in a posting

   Janina: That was a beautiful letter.

   Michael: Everybody must rejoin the APA wg because we have now
   normative work products.
   ... You will be kicked out if you do not rejoin.
   ... Everybody will get a prompt to rejoin.

   Janina: Personalization tf is moving from ARIA to APA.
   ... Work that ETS proposed on pronunciation for TTS.

   John: All members of personalization TF will also need to join

TPAC 2018 [13]https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2018

     [13] https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2018

   Janina: Started conversation with Leonie about joints topics
   with web platform.
   ... One of them being personlization.
   ... Also architecture
   ... Publishing - need to dive into with Marisa
   ... Hopefuly we can outline the basic parameters on publishing
   by Oct
   ... Also conversation on accessible knowledge domain markup
   ... (still trying to find a good term for this)

   John: Outstanding issues on media - programmatic access to
   transcripts, providing text alternatives to be poster
   attributes for video

   Janina: Poster issue is an edge case. Other stuff has priority.

   Gottfried: Talking about Mon-Tue agenda, or Thu-Fri?

   Janina: Both. But will aim for Mon-Tue as much as we can, to
   accommodate Gottfried.
   ... We can also swap with ARIA (Thu-Fri) if needed.

CAPTCHA Rewrite Update

   Janina: Wanted to make sure that reordering is okay.
   ... We got lots of comments.
   ... Google's implementation is causing trouble.
   ... RQTF is already starting to address this.
   ... Our focus is not on privacy / security.
   ... Although we mention priv/sec in the doc.

Publishing & Transcript Intersections

   Janina: We are delighted that IDPF joined W3C.
   ... DAISY comes in as part of that.
   ... HTML5 allows to mark documents as digital publication.
   Embedded audios and videos.
   ... Big opportunities, e.g. sign language translation (see
   ... A digital publication is not timed.
   ... But timed media may be provided as alternatives (e.g.
   recorded audio)
   ... We should work our way to a position where we have various
   types of media, each of which can function as the master
   ... The master timeline may have alternative versions.
   ... The topic is publishing, not transcript.
   ... The transcript use case will be covered in the end.

   John: Concern that reserved terms are already being used and
   ... Printed document is media?
   ... Media has timeline and timestamps.
   ... We need more granular specificity.

   Janina: Agree. We should stick to what we agreed before for
   ... They were confused about sign language translation.
   ... We don't own that term. But we might nudge publishing and
   ... We need to learn to articulate this without getting stuck.
   ... It worked when we came up with a master resource - made
   sense to them.
   ... But don't introduce it too soon.

   Marisa: I am with the DAISY consortium, involved in publishing
   wg in W3C.
   ... Originally ePub wg in IDPF.
   ... In EPUB3 we have media overlays.
   ... The underlying format was SMIL - we defined a subset of
   SMIL for media overlays.
   ... Goal is to continue this in the W3C publishing wg.
   ... But SMIL is heavy and complicated.

   Janina: HTML5 killed it.

   Marisa: We are looking at existing technologies to replace SMIL
   for media overlays.
   ... Problem is the constituents of the publishing wg. We do not
   have people that want to produce synchronized audio and video.
   ... If there is demand of synchronized media in ebooks, let me
   ... Audio description working group looking at TTML2.

   <Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask about popcorn.js

   John: Are you familiar with Popcorn-JS (JS library)?
   ... PopcornJS looks at media asset, takes a fixed timeline,
   fires events at runtime based on timeline markers.
   ... Genome project: proof of concept experiment
   ... You want to have a similar function but in another format.
   ... Fire and access supplemental content at a specific point in

   Marisa: We are looking for synchronized text in audio books.
   ... Technologically this is very possible in a browser context.
   Use JS today.
   ... But format for the timeline is not clear.

   John: External resource rather than inline markup?

   Marisa: Yes

   Janina: I think we need to keep talking. Discuss potentially
   useful approaches.
   ... John and i have experience about what works and not in the
   HTML5 world
   ... You can get all what you want, but make it more useful for
   mainstream publishing.
   ... This merger will prove its value in a big way.
   ... DAISY book concept - synchronize audio and text - looking
   into using HTML5 for this?

   Marisa: We want to retire SMIL.
   ... Either just use JS or TTML2 or so.
   ... Don't want to make it complicated for implementers.
   ... We do not need a complicated timing solution.

   Janina: Your use case also satisfies the transcript case.
   ... But talking about it now complicates things.

   Marisa: We do not have representation in our wg for this.

   Janina: If we have an audio resource with transcript - that's a
   text version of the audio - no need for synchronization.
   ... Not the most useful kind of transcript, but it covers it.

   Marisa: We are looking for finer-grained synchronization.

   Janina: The most stupid use case can be a starting point.

   John: Primary asset - other things are related to it.
   ... Audio feed of text.
   ... Timestamped audio feed - highlighting possible.
   ... It is all about identifying different kinds of relations to
   a primary asset.

   Janina: I think only one can be a primary.

   John: We need more to say about the primary asset - overlap
   with personalization.

   Janina: audio descriptions, captions, sign language, multiple
   languages, and so on.
   ... And here is the transcript.
   ... The alternative for transcript would use Marisa's markup
   when there is synchronized audio.

   John: We need a mechanism to say: Here is a primary asset.

   Janina: Apple will push back.

   Marisa: I understand what you are proposing.
   ... But i don't know if it works.
   ... I will get back to the publishing wg, and they will want to
   hear specifics about is.

   John: Agree. We need a concept, but also examples of
   ... Need to be clear on the larger picture of the asset, then
   identify use cases.

   Janina: Enough for now. Need to continue this next week.
   ... We need to define this well enough to have a meaningful
   conversation at TPAC with others.
   ... Clash with audio description group. We don't call it audio
   description in the MAUR.
   ... I will jump in here, giving the people an overview on MAUR.
   ... Naming clash, we disagree with ISO on this. Video
   description or audio description?
   ... Comparison of TTML and SMIL?

   Marisa: Looked at proposed AD by Nigel and ??
   ... Not similar to how DAISY has been using SMIL.
   ... Timing structure is more intricate than what we require.
   ... Completely different text format.

   Janina: You may have to live with that.

   Marisa: Publishing wg centered around html5 format for ebooks.
   ... Maybe there are other serializations - discussed with

   Janina: We need TTML or WebVT.
   ... Text version needs to be HTML markup.
   ... If TTML is too fine - not a problem - define a subset.

   John: First support of TTML in Flash players was only a subset

CSS Update

new on TR [14]http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

     [14] http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

   Michael: SVG is up.
   ... One of the timelines may be up, but i don't remember.

   Janina: We will put action item review as a main point on the
   next agenda.

   Page visibility

   Janina: I will ask them for an extension.

   Michael: If it is only new draft, it might be possible. If it
   goes to CR, might be a problem.

   Janina: We need some developers.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]

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Default Present: janina, marisa, gottfried, MichaelC, JF, IanPouncey
Present: janina marisa gottfried MichaelC JF IanPouncey
Regrets: Leonie
Found Scribe: Gottfried
Inferring ScribeNick: gottfried
Found Date: 08 Aug 2018
People with action items:

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