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FW: Draft minutes of APA call on 2016-03-30

From: Gottfried Zimmermann \(List\) <zimmermann@accesstechnologiesgroup.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:24:07 +0200
To: "'W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures'" <public-apa@w3.org>
Message-ID: <009a01d18b61$5e95f6f0$1bc1e4d0$@accesstechnologiesgroup.com>
The text of the draft minutes is now pasted at the very end of this message.
There has been a problem with access rights for the minutes – thanks to
Michael, this problem is now solved.


Here is a summary of the action items from the meeting:

[NEW] ACTION: fesch to review CSS Object Model (CSSOM)
https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. [recorded in
[NEW] ACTION: MichaelC to review CSS Scrolll Snap Points Module Level 1
https://www.w3.org/TR/css-snappoints-1/. [recorded in




Von: Gottfried Zimmermann (List)
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. März 2016 19:14
An: 'W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures' <public-apa@w3.org>
Betreff: Draft minutes of APA call on 2016-03-30


In HTML format:  <https://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-minutes.html>


Sorry, i cannot access the text since I seem to have an access issue.  Will
send the text later once I get access again.





 Prof. Dr. Gottfried Zimmermann

Mobile User Interaction





      [1] http://www.w3.org/


                               - DRAFT -


     Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

                              30 Mar 2016


   See also: [2]IRC log


      [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-irc





          Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, Michiel_Bijl, fesch, MichaelC







          me, Gottfried




     * [3]Topics

         1. [4]preview agenda with items from two minutes

         2. [5]Web Payments Teleconference Reminder -- Shane,


         3. [6]CSUN Highlights -- Open Discussion

         4. [7]CSS Progress -- Rich, Cynthia, Michael, Leonie

         5. [8]W3C Spec Styling Issues -- Michael

         6. [9]Actions Procedure Tweaks -- Janina, Michael

         7. [10]Actions Review (Specs)


         8. [11]new on TR


     * [12]Summary of Action Items

     * [13]Summary of Resolutions



preview agenda with items from two minutes


   <fesch> text/list


   <Gottfried> scribe: me


   <Gottfried> scribe: Gottfried


Web Payments Teleconference Reminder -- Shane, Janina


   Janina: We have committed to work on a review as a subteam.

   Next Mon at 1pm EDT. 3 people have signed up. Others are

   welcome to join.


CSUN Highlights -- Open Discussion


   Janina: Really hot braille display...


   Rich: Pearson working on an editor for digital math, supports

   braille displays. Awesome.

   ... If the user can navigate a math equation via keyboard, math

   understanding increases by 10-15%.


   Janina: American Printing House & NFB cooperation for braille


   ... Will be much cheaper than current devices, about $500.


CSS Progress -- Rich, Cynthia, Michael, Leonie


   Rich: We asked them to deal with the interop issue, e.g. flex

   box, content injection. If it doesn't support accessibility,

   WCAG people will be forced to mark this technology as not


   ... Then it comes back to you - why didn't you make this


   ... Met with Rosson and Bogdan, CSS co-chair. Interop spec for

   CSS. Can we work on this together? How do we staff it? - Was a

   good meeting.


   Michael: Called "CSS accessibility API mapping spec". Best

   practices doc is needed. They had agreed to work on this in the


   ... They told us it would be helpful to provide test cases

   demonstrating the concerns. We also talked of solving the

   navigation problem. Need to take a look at this from a broader

   perspective, across technologies (HTML, CSS, SVG).

   ... For flex-box issues and similar layout issues, we need the

   navigation problem solved. But cannot be done quickly. We might

   not be able to close this work before they close the specs.

   ... Joint tf between APA and CSS wgs? If CSS doesn't support

   this, we could create a CSS focus group ourselves.


   Janina: Who could do this?


   Michael: Cynthia? Bogdan?

   ... We need to help them understand the issues and to solve

   them. We need to provide resources for this.


   Janina: How can we make them understand the problem?


   Michael: Test cases.

   ... CSS flex-box is implemented, and we can easily demonstrate

   the problem.


   Janina: Maybe Matt is interested in this?


   Rich: The a11y tree needs to be reordered. With that they did

   not have an issue.

   ... They were reluctant to deal with keyboard tab index issues.

   They want tab index modifications be done by the author. Might

   be less problematic than restructuring the DOM. But the

   solution for tab index requires positive integers to change

   order. Very brittle solution. We need to go back and look at kb

   navigation again, also other types of input.

   ... Similar issues with SVG, directional navigation - not

   possible with tab index. Feature in XHTML was to build a link

   chain for focus navigation. We need to bring back this concept



   Michael: I was referencing most of what you said. We keep

   referring to other groups to solve the problem.

   ... Rough plan was to start now with CSS a11y API mapping.

   Navigation issues need to be addressed likely in a separate


   ... Still need the people to work on this


   Janina: Still concerned about whether CSS and other graphics

   people are fully convinced about what we talk about is a real


   ... We need to illustrate the problem in a couple of test



   Michael: Issue of generated content not being exposed is

   already illustrated.


   Fred: Talk to Matt and Bryan?

   ... Show them how it impacts the user. Need the personal user

   experience and awareness of the issue.


   Michael: Walk them through a demo file rather than just



   Janina: We can invite Bryan.

   ... Next steps are to draw Matt and/or Bryan into another



   Michael: Cynthia should be involved as well. Also ARIA wg.

   ... Session in ARIA group on CSS.


   Rich: Right now, don't have any room on our plates.


   Michael: Suggest Cynthia starts the mapping, and ARIA should be

   informed that this would become a deliverable of them.


   Rich: No time right now at all in ARIA, until ARIA advances.


   Michael: Fair enough. What can we do on this from an APA


   ... Can we take this up in APA?


   Janina: How can we avoid going silent on this? Let me see if we

   can talk with Matt and Cynthia next week. First step would be

   to demonstrate the issues.

   ... Put together some illustrations to keep activity happening.


   Michael: Rosson was saying he would come back to this group.

   ... Willing to talk to us by end of this week.

   ... Should also inform WAI coordination committee (or similar



W3C Spec Styling Issues -- Michael


   Janina: What is left over?


   Michael: People weren't surprised by the styles. We need to

   sort out problems over time.

   ... In theory, they want to revise the styles annually. Both an

   opportunity to get improvements in next time, but also

   obligation to check things out next year.


   Gottfried: Is there a process for us to check their styles

   before they go public?


   Michael: Yes, there is a process. We missed it this time -

   wasn't well coordinated on our end.


Actions Procedure Tweaks -- Janina, Michael


   Janina: How can we work with our actions more cleanly?

   ... Suggest to make the action item reviews simply as

   pending/done etc.

   ... If people have finished their action items, they should

   send a message to the group, and i will then take it up for the

   agenda of the next meeting.


   Gottfried: Good suggestion. Email with action item number gets

   recorded in the system.


   Michael: People need to remember this.


   Gottfried: Send automatic reminders?


   Michael: Not a feature as far as i know. Could send a feature

   request. Also can get ennoying for authors.


   Gottfried: Send an automatic email when the action item is



   Michael: Yes, we can make this setting.


   Janina: Good suggestion


Actions Review (Specs)



     [14] https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8




   <trackbot> action-2019 -- Fred Esch to Review css fragmentation

   module level 3 [15]https://www.w3.org/tr/css-break-3/ -- due

   2016-03-16 -- OPEN


     [15] https://www.w3.org/tr/css-break-3/


   <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2019


     [16] http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2019


   Fred: Same issues as other CSS specs.

   ... Did an update on this.


   <MichaelC> close action-2019


   <trackbot> Closed action-2019.




   <trackbot> action-2016 -- Michiel Bijl to Review clipboard api

   and events [17]http://www.w3.org/tr/clipboard-apis/ -- due

   2016-03-16 -- OPEN


     [17] http://www.w3.org/tr/clipboard-apis/


   <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2016


     [18] http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2016


   Michiel: I have sent an issue to them. We can now close this



   Michael: Should we wait for the response before we close it?





     [19] https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/26


   Michiel: They have replied.


   <MichaelC> close action-2016


   <trackbot> Closed action-2016.


   Michiel: Spec should be focused on what happens between browser

   and JavaScript. Issue is regarded as off-topic.


   Michael: Can we put this on the agenda of next week?


new on TR [20]http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html


     [20] http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html


   Michael: There are 14 specs we haven't look at yet


   <MichaelC> [21]CSS Object Model (CSSOM)


     [21] https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/


   Michael: Wondering if it is just a DOM for CSS. Maybe not so

   important for us. Do we need to look at this?


   Fred: I will look at this.


   <scribe> ACTION: fresch to review CSS Object Model (CSSOM)

   [22]https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. [recorded in



     [22] https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-minutes.html#action01]


   <trackbot> Error finding 'fresch'. You can review and register

   nicknames at <[24]http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users>.


     [24] http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users


   <MichaelC> [25]CSS Scroll Snap Points Module Level 1


     [25] https://www.w3.org/TR/css-snappoints-1/


   <scribe> ACTION: fesch to review CSS Object Model (CSSOM)

   [26]https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. [recorded in



     [26] https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-minutes.html#action02]


   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2020 - Review css object model

   (cssom) [28]https://www.w3.org/tr/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. [on

   Fred Esch - due 2016-04-06].


     [28] https://www.w3.org/tr/cssom-1/


   <scribe> ACTION: MichaelC to review CSS Scrolll Snap Points

   Module Level 1 [29]https://www.w3.org/TR/css-snappoints-1/.

   [recorded in



     [29] https://www.w3.org/TR/css-snappoints-1/.

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-minutes.html#action03]


   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2021 - Review css scrolll snap points

   module level 1 [31]https://www.w3.org/tr/css-snappoints-1/. [on

   Michael Cooper - due 2016-04-06].


     [31] https://www.w3.org/tr/css-snappoints-1/.


   <MichaelC> action-2020?


   <trackbot> action-2020 -- Fred Esch to Review css object model

   (cssom) [32]https://www.w3.org/tr/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. --

   due 2016-04-06 -- OPEN


     [32] https://www.w3.org/tr/cssom-1/


   <trackbot> [33]http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2020


     [33] http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2020


   <MichaelC> action-2020 due 2 weeks


   <trackbot> Set action-2020 Review css object model (cssom)

   [34]https://www.w3.org/tr/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. due date to



     [34] https://www.w3.org/tr/cssom-1/






Summary of Action Items


   [NEW] ACTION: fesch to review CSS Object Model (CSSOM)

  https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. [recorded in


   [NEW] ACTION: fresch to review CSS Object Model (CSSOM)

   https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. [recorded in


   [NEW] ACTION: MichaelC to review CSS Scrolll Snap Points Module

   Level 1 https://www.w3.org/TR/css-snappoints-1/. [recorded in



     [35] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-minutes.html#action02

     [36] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-minutes.html#action01

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-minutes.html#action03


Summary of Resolutions


   [End of minutes]




    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [38]scribe.perl version

    1.144 ([39]CVS log)

    $Date: 2016/03/30 17:02:55 $



     [38] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

     [39] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/


Scribe.perl diagnostic output


   [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34

Check for newer version at [40]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/



     [40] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/


Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)


Succeeded: s/Brian/Bryan/

Succeeded: s/wasn't well coordinated/wasn't well coordinated on our end/

Found Scribe: me

Found Scribe: Gottfried

Inferring ScribeNick: Gottfried

Scribes: me, Gottfried

Default Present: Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, Michiel_Bijl, fesch, MichaelC

Present: Janina Joanmarie_Diggs Michiel_Bijl fesch MichaelC

Found Date: 30 Mar 2016

Guessing minutes URL: [41]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-minutes.html

People with action items: fesch fresch michaelc


     [41] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-minutes.html



   [End of [42]scribe.perl diagnostic output]


     [42] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm


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