- From: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 16:38:59 -0500
- To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
- Cc: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, "'W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures'" <public-apa@w3.org>, "'Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group'" <public-aria@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <201602032141.u13Lft5G028268@d03av04.boulder.ibm.com>
Bryan,
I can't point to a live example. Most of the issues I run across are in
products that are a few months from going out the door. The best I can do
is screen scape the DOM.
Regards,
Fred Esch
Watson, IBM, W3C
Accessibility
IBM Watson Watson Release Management and Quality
From: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
To: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, "'W3C WAI Accessible
Platform Architectures'" <public-apa@w3.org>, "'Accessible Rich
Internet Applications Working Group'" <public-aria@w3.org>
Date: 02/03/2016 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: grids vs sortable tables
Can you point to a live example of this?
Thanks,
Bryan
From: Fred Esch [mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 5:57 AM
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
Cc: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>; 'W3C WAI Accessible Platform
Architectures' <public-apa@w3.org>; 'Accessible Rich Internet Applications
Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: RE: grids vs sortable tables
Bryan and Matt,
What all do you recommend for a structure for a sortable table. Is there an
ideal example? If you were looking at fixing a widely used library and
donating back the fix, what you want the widely used sortable table to look
like? For instance, if you were looking at angularJS's ng-table what you
want changed?
Regards,
Fred Esch
Watson, IBM, W3C
Accessibility
IBM Watson Watson Release Management and
Quality
Inactive hide details for Bryan Garaventa ---02/02/2016 12:57:22 PM---It
should still be possible to do something like the follBryan Garaventa
---02/02/2016 12:57:22 PM---It should still be possible to do something
like the following. <table>
From: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
To: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS, Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
Cc: "'W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures'" <public-apa@w3.org>,
"'Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group'" <public-aria@w3.org
>
Date: 02/02/2016 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: grids vs sortable tables
It should still be possible to do something like the following.
<table>
<tr>
<th aria-sort="ascending">
<a href="#"> Name </a>
</th>
<th aria-sort="none">
<a href="#"> Email </a>
</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
Twoflower
</td>
<td>
Inn-sewer-ants@discworld.com
</td>
</tr>
</table>
Or the same using its equivalent role=”table” on a simulated construct.
This is documented in the ARIA 1.1 spec for use with both tables and grids.
From: Fred Esch [mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 5:46 AM
To: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
Cc: 'W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures' <public-apa@w3.org>;
'Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: RE: grids vs sortable tables
Matt,
I assumed the table sortable attribute and the th sorted attributes were
passed on to AT. I assumed that when a sorted state was announced, the user
would know that you could sort on that column - using the mouse or enter
key. I didn't know the HTML attributes were going away.
Deque's sortable table example uses role of grid and aria-sort on the th
elements aria-sort='none' when it is sortable but not sorted by that
column. I would suggest making an W3C example for sortable tables since the
current HTML spec can cause confusion between grids and tables.
Regards,
Fred Esch
Watson, IBM, W3C
Accessibility
IBM Watson Watson Release Management
and Quality
Inactive hide details for Matt King ---02/01/2016 02:49:12 PM---Fred,Matt
King ---02/01/2016 02:49:12 PM---Fred,
From: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
To: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS, "'Steve Faulkner'" <
faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: "'Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group'" <
public-aria@w3.org>, "'W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures'" <
public-apa@w3.org>
Date: 02/01/2016 02:49 PM
Subject: RE: grids vs sortable tables
Fred,
Is it necessary to have a property on the table to tell the user that a
particular TH inside that table contains an interactive element for sorting
that column?
Matt
From: Fred Esch [mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 9:57 AM
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group <public-aria@w3.org
>; W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures <public-apa@w3.org>
Subject: Re: grids vs sortable tables
Steve,
There are sortable tables being used in the wild, for example angularJS's
ng-table. How are developers supposed to tell AT users that a table is
sortable and a column can be sorted if the sortable and sorted properties
are removed?
Sortable tables are important for accessibility as they are often used as
an accessible alternative to charts. Even when you can make a chart
accessible, when you a huge number of data rows - you want a better way for
an AT user to find the max/min values than walking all the data members.
For instance, providing a sortable table will be more usable than having an
accessible bar chart and forcing an AT user to walk 200 bars to find the
top five bars. Personally, if I had to get the top five values from a huge
bar chart I would prefer a sortable table as well.
Regards,
Fred Esch
Watson, IBM, W3C
Accessibility
IBM Watson Watson Release Management
and Quality
Inactive hide details for Steve Faulkner ---01/29/2016 04:58:04 PM---On 29
January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com> Steve Faulkner
---01/29/2016 04:58:04 PM---On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch <
fesch@us.ibm.com> wrote: > A table element can have a *'sort
From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
To: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, Accessible Rich Internet
Applications Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Date: 01/29/2016 04:58 PM
Subject: Re: grids vs sortable tables
On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com> wrote:
A table element can have a 'sortable' attribute
which designates you can sort on columns.
note the table sorting algorithm and associated attribute have been removed
from the whatwg HTML spec due to a lack of implementer interest and suggest
the same fate will befall this feature in W3C HTML, sooner rather than
later.
--
Regards
SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
Received on Wednesday, 3 February 2016 21:42:29 UTC