- From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 01:18:16 -0500
- To: Paolo Ciccarese <paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com>
- CC: Bob Morris <morris.bob@gmail.com>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, public-openannotation <public-openannotation@w3.org>, W3C Public Annotation List <public-annotation@w3.org>
Hi, Paolo, Bob– It would be extremely foolish for us to exclude the ability for a selector to link to data. So, that's not going to happen. Whether we work on defining that selection mechanism immediately in a working group is a different topic. I personally don't know how difficult that would be; I suspect it would be a relative hard problem with a diverse range of selectors needed for different data sources. But it does sound like an interesting and valuable use case. As Ivan said, it might be better to have a general extensibility to the data and selector model, and to define a data citation selector in a different phase or a different group (unless it turns out to be much easier to solve than I suspect). Regards- -Doug On 2/4/14 9:03 PM, Paolo Ciccarese wrote: > To add to what Bob said…. > > Besides the DataPositionSelector we don't have any that is currently in > the specs: > http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/specific.html#DataPositionSelector > > However, there are local implementations. For instance, I currently > annotate the latest 10 entries of a particular kind in the triple store > - same approach could be used with a SQL Database. > > In that case the Selector can encode what is necessary to identify the > entries. So, leveraging selectors, I can say: > > <sptarget1> a oa:SpecificResource ; > oa:hasSource <host::database> ; > oa:hasSelector <selector1> . > > <selector1> a xx:SparqlQuerySelector ; > xx:sparqlQuery "" . > > True, the above target is dynamic but there are cases in which the > tagged has static nature. Example: annotate all the records in a > database created before 2000 and containing the symbol CompoundX with > the note "The compound name is now called CompoundY". > > I do agree that these use cases might not be as widespread as the > annotation of classic web resources. And I am not sure on how much > should be said in the charter. In general, I would just make sure the > evolution of the model would not preclude mechanisms like the above. I > feel it is very unlikely unless the current model is completely > revolutionized... > > Again, robust anchoring is somehow orthogonal to this. > > Best, > Paolo > > > On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:45 PM, Bob Morris <morris.bob@gmail.com > <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com>> wrote: > > We have some detailed examples in the supplementary material of our > PLOSone paper [1]. As Paolo says, OA Selector methods generally work > for queries. You just need domain vocabulary for the query variables. > With just a little dance the pattern can even be given meaning > signalling annotations that make an assertion intended to hold for an > arbitrary database that can make sense of the query. > --Bob > > [1] Semantic Annotation of Mutable Data > http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0076093 > > On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 7:56 PM, Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org > <mailto:schepers@w3.org>> wrote: > > Hi, Paolo- > > > > Not to drill too deep into details, but what would such a > selector look > > like? > > > > Regards- > > -Doug > > > > > > On 2/4/14 7:38 PM, Paolo Ciccarese wrote: > >> > >> Hi Doug, Bob, all, > >> in the current Open Annotation model - and that was true for Open > >> Annotation Collaboration and Annotation Ontology models - the data > >> annotation is supported and an important aspect of the overall > idea. For > >> instance we can have a selector that is able to identify a > portion of a > >> dataset through an appropriate mechanisms (even a SQL query if > necessary). > >> > >> Doug, data selectors don't change the need for robust anchoring > within > >> the web documents realm, it is simply a different aspect. The > concern is > >> to have a new model that will somehow preclude/limit that. That > would be > >> a problem for instance for the scientific community where data > curation > >> can be addressed with annotation. > >> > >> > >> Best, > >> Paolo > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org > <mailto:schepers@w3.org> > >> <mailto:schepers@w3.org <mailto:schepers@w3.org>>> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, Bob- > >> > >> The Force11 Data Citation Principles are interesting, and I > >> certainly support them; they seem very much in line with TimBL's > >> thinking about Linked Open Data and "five-star data". > >> > >> While I agree with Ivan that we need to keep a focused > scope, I'm > >> curious what specifically you would like to see in the charter? > >> > >> Much of the Force11 Data Citation Principles seem to be about > >> publishing guidelines or citation guidelines, not > annotations per > >> se. Are you suggesting that the robust anchoring try to > address data > >> citation as well as document anchoring? Or is there some > other way > >> in which "data" could be more explicitly in scope? > >> > >> Regards- > >> -Doug > >> > >> > >> On 2/4/14 11:53 AM, Ivan Herman wrote: > >> > >> > >> On 04 Feb 2014, at 16:28 , Bob Morris > <morris.bob@gmail.com <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com> > >> <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com > <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com>>> wrote: > >> > >> This is good news and I add my thanks. > >> > >> It will be no surprise to OA followers that only > problem I > >> have > >> with the early draft is that it does not > unambiguously put > >> data > >> annotation in the scope. This is all the more > disappointing > >> given > >> the quite interesting efforts that Tim and Ivan have > pointed > >> out > >> in public-openannotation@w3.org > <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org> > >> <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org > <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org>> about data citation > >> practices, > >> e.g. http://force11.org/__datacitation > >> <http://force11.org/datacitation>, in the context of > >> increasing > >> > >> pressure from funding agencies to provide the data > behind the > >> conclusions of scientific publications. > >> > >> > >> Bob, > >> > >> obviously:-) I am aware of the data publishing issues. And I > >> think it > >> is correct to say that part of the work that is planned > in the > >> group > >> (namely the finalization of the data model) would > certainly be > >> usable > >> for data annotation as well. > >> > >> However... the work on API-s, RESTful or not, would, I > believe, be > >> very different when we talk about annotation on data and > about > >> annotation on web pages or digital books. And the sad > reality is > >> that > >> we have to make a choice in the scope because we cannot > cover > >> everything in one place. Hence the current focus on the > >> 'traditional' > >> Web issues. > >> > >> That being said: we are certainly open to either enlarge > the scope > >> or, possibly at a later point, spawn a different group > with a > >> different scope that would look at the annotation of data > >> publishing. > >> It is a matter of 'submissions' in the general sense, a > maturity > >> of > >> the technology in terms of a possible standardization, > communities > >> that are ready to step up... Let us see where the public > >> discussion > >> goes! > >> > >> Thanks! > >> > >> Ivan > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Paolo Ciccarese > >> <paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com > <mailto:paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com> > >> <mailto:paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com > <mailto:paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com>>> wrote: > >> > >> Dear Community Group Members, As anticipated W3C > may start > >> a > >> Working Group to standardize the major building > blocks for > >> annotations. > >> > >> Thanks to the work of Ivan Herman and Doug > Schepers, an > >> 'advance > >> notice' has been issued to the W3C members[1] > and a very > >> early > >> draft for the Working Group Charter [2] has been > made > >> available > >> publicly. > >> > >> Any comments are welcome to finalize the draft. > The best > >> is to > >> send them to the public-annotation@w3.org > <mailto:public-annotation@w3.org> > >> <mailto:public-annotation@w3.org > <mailto:public-annotation@w3.org>> mailing list whose role > >> > >> is to collect all the comments coming from the > community > >> at > >> large. > >> > >> Best, Paolo & Rob > >> > >> [1] > >> > >> > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/__Public/public-annotation/__2014Feb/0000.html > >> > >> > <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2014Feb/0000.html> > >> > >> > >> [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/Ann-__charter.html > >> <http://www.w3.org/2014/01/Ann-charter.html> > >> > >> > >> -- Dr. Paolo Ciccarese > http://www.paolociccarese.__info/ > >> > >> <http://www.paolociccarese.info/> Biomedical > >> Informatics Research & Development Instructor of > >> Neurology at > >> Harvard Medical School Assistant in Neuroscience > at Mass > >> General > >> Hospital Member of the MGH Biomedical > Informatics Core > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- Robert A. Morris > >> > >> Emeritus Professor of Computer Science UMASS-Boston 100 > >> Morrissey > >> Blvd Boston, MA 02125-3390 > >> > >> > >> Filtered Push Project Harvard University Herbaria > Harvard > >> University > >> > >> email: morris.bob@gmail.com > <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com> <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com > <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com>> > >> > >> web: http://efg.cs.umb.edu/ web: > >> http://wiki.filteredpush.org http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram === > >> The > >> content of this communication is made entirely on my own > >> behalf and > >> in no way should be deemed to express official > positions of > >> The > >> University of Massachusetts at Boston or Harvard > University. > >> > >> > >> > >> ---- Ivan Herman, W3C Digital Publishing Activity Lead Home: > >> http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ mobile: +31-641044153 > <tel:%2B31-641044153> > >> <tel:%2B31-641044153> GPG: 0x343F1A3D > >> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/__foaf > >> > >> <http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Dr. Paolo Ciccarese > >> http://www.paolociccarese.info/ > >> Biomedical Informatics Research & Development > >> Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School > >> Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital > >> Member of the MGH Biomedical Informatics Core > >> +1-857-366-1524 <tel:%2B1-857-366-1524> (mobile) +1-617-768-8744 > <tel:%2B1-617-768-8744> (office) > >> > >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for the > >> addressee(s), may contain information that is considered > >> to be sensitive or confidential and may not be forwarded or > disclosed to > >> any other party without the permission of the sender. > >> If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender > >> immediately. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Robert A. Morris > > Emeritus Professor of Computer Science > UMASS-Boston > 100 Morrissey Blvd > Boston, MA 02125-3390 > > > Filtered Push Project > Harvard University Herbaria > Harvard University > > email: morris.bob@gmail.com <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com> > web: http://efg.cs.umb.edu/ > web: http://wiki.filteredpush.org > http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram > === > The content of this communication is made entirely on my > own behalf and in no way should be deemed to express > official positions of The University of Massachusetts at Boston or > Harvard University. > > > > > -- > Dr. Paolo Ciccarese > http://www.paolociccarese.info/ > Biomedical Informatics Research & Development > Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School > Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital > Member of the MGH Biomedical Informatics Core > +1-857-366-1524 (mobile) +1-617-768-8744 (office) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for the > addressee(s), may contain information that is considered > to be sensitive or confidential and may not be forwarded or disclosed to > any other party without the permission of the sender. > If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender > immediately.
Received on Wednesday, 5 February 2014 06:18:25 UTC