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Re: draft-ietf-httpbis-alt-svc-12.txt

From: Kari Hurtta <hurtta-ietf@elmme-mailer.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 04:38:25 +0000
To: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
Cc: Kari Hurtta <hurtta-ietf@elmme-mailer.org>, HTTP WG <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, Patrick McManus <mcmanus@ducksong.com>, "Julian F. Reschke" <julian.reschke@greenbytes.de>
Message-Id: <201602100437.u1A4bina022429@shell.siilo.fmi.fi>
Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>: (Wed Feb 10 05:31:11 2016)
> Hi Kari,
> 
> I think Barry is about to start IETF LC on this, so if that happens, we'll just consider this LC feedback.

I see.

> It's a fair point. This is difficult to specify; one way we could do it is to specify the way we know here (using HTTPS with a strong cert), and require other ways to update this specification (with an Updates: field on the Standards Track).
> 
> What do others think?
> 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-alt-svc-12#section-2.1

|                                    However, if "other.example.com" is
|   offered with the "h2c" protocol, the client cannot use it, because
|   there is no mechanism in that protocol to establish the relationship
|   between the origin and the alternative.

=>

|                                    However, if "other.example.com" 
|   (or "www.example.com" on another port) is offered with the "h2c" protocol, 
|   the client cannot use it, because there is no mechanism in that protocol 
|   to establish the relationship between the origin and the alternative.

I think that this addition gives enough hint about that.


And probably drop "h2c" examples or add note (to near of examples):

| "h2c" protocol on example assumes that "reasonable assurance" (Section 2.1)
| is established elsewhere.

Or something like that.

/ Kari Hurtta

>> On 10 Feb 2016, at 5:28 am, Kari Hurtta <hurtta-ietf@elmme-mailer.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Tricky
>> 
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-alt-svc-12#section-2.1
>> 
>> | 2.1. Host Authentication
>> | 
>> | 
>> |   Clients MUST have reasonable assurances that the alternative service
>> |   is under control of and valid for the whole origin.
>> 
>> I have impression that on absence of other protocol, this is mean to
>> forbid use plain HTTP/2 (ie "h2c"), because there is no "reasonable
>> assurance".
>> 
>> But is reader understanding that? There is examples which use "h2c".
>> 
>> This does not give that
>> 
>> |                                   However, if "other.example.com" is
>> |   offered with the "h2c" protocol, the client cannot use it, because
>> |   there is no mechanism in that protocol to establish the relationship
>> |   between the origin and the alternative.
>> 
>> Reader may think that there is "reasonable assurance" when hostname
>> is same.
>> 
>> There is 
>> 
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-alt-svc-12#section-9.1
>> 
>> | 9.1. Changing Ports
>> | 
>> | 
>> |   Using an alternative service implies accessing an origin's resources
>> |   on an alternative port, at a minimum.  An attacker that can inject
>> |   alternative services and listen at the advertised port is therefore
>> |   able to hijack an origin.  On certain servers, it is normal for users
>> |   to be able to control some personal pages available on a shared port,
>> |   and also to accept to requests on less-privileged ports.
>> 
>> But that part is confusing:
>> 
>> |   This risk is mitigated by the requirements in Section 2.1.
>> 
>> When requirement is "reasonable assurance" I think that reader
>> is confused.
>> 
>> "h2c" examples are
>> 
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-alt-svc-12#section-3
>> 
>> |   The Alt-Svc field value can have multiple values:
>> |   
>> |   Alt-Svc: h2c=":8000", h2=":443"
>> 
>> 
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-alt-svc-12#section-3.1
>> 
>> 
>> |     HTTP/1.1 200 OK
>> |     Content-Type: text/html
>> |     Cache-Control: max-age=600
>> |     Age: 30
>> |     Alt-Svc: h2c=":8000"; ma=60
>> 
>> 
>> So my question is: Can reader understand this without
>> reading https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/ ?
>> 
>> ( Or without reading that other protocol RFC which 
>> gives reasonable assurance. )
>> 
>> / Kari Hurtta
>> 
> 
> --
> Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
> 
Received on Wednesday, 10 February 2016 20:17:01 UTC

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