W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > ietf-http-wg@w3.org > April to June 2013

Re: Out-of-order Frames

From: Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 14:18:27 +1200
Message-ID: <51C65AF3.60900@treenet.co.nz>
To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
On 23/06/2013 1:45 p.m., Zhong Yu wrote:
> this reminds me another request for out-of-order delivery of an http entity
>
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2012OctDec/0259.html
>
> (it would be funny though to implement out-of-order frams on top of
> TCP which already deals with out-of-order segments)

It does sound very similar. But the kfall draft is very close to 
technically possible.

The case as presented by Sam the "chunk 3" starting offset is completely 
unknown to both client *and* server. Take an arbitrary length string, 
insert a second arbitrary string (length M) into it at a pre-known 
starting offset (N) and somehow determine the value of N+M before M 
comes into existence. Not possible until we fix our machines phychic 
abilities.

This is a solved problem in markup languages, they use a special tag 
(OBJECT and IFRAME I referred to earlier, IMG, SCRIPT, VIDEO are others 
in HTML) in a tree structure which can be adjusted - you should all 
recognise the DOM. However outside of markup languages multimedia 
resources are not able to split their content over a tree-like structure 
without becoming something else.

Amos

>
> Zhong Yu
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Sam Pullara wrote:
>> Commonly in dynamically generated websites there are sections of content that are static and parts that are calculated on a per request basis. The current best practice for accelerating the delivery of a page like this involves leaving identifiable DOM elements where the dynamic content would appear, flushing the entire static page, and then flushing JavaScript script nodes as calculations complete (e.g. Facebook's BigPipe and deferred rendering in mustache.java). This practice only works for HTML pages (with JavaScript enabled) and offers no acceleration for other types of content delivered over HTTP.
>>
>> One possible solution to this problem would be to allow for out-of-order frames where the static frames are sent as quickly as the connection allows and dynamically generated frames are then sent later as they become available on the server. We would likely not want to enable this in general and would likely need to negotiate this behavior between client and server. Looking at the spec, frames might not be the right place but something on top of frames because of the size limitations.
>>
>> Has something like this been discussed before? Would this be the right mechanism or are there better ways to do it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sam
>>
>>
Received on Sunday, 23 June 2013 02:19:05 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 1 March 2016 11:11:13 UTC