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Re: Re[2]: Straw-man for our next charter

From: Adam Barth <w3c@adambarth.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 17:11:26 -0700
Message-ID: <CAJE5ia80UM18UYJs2Cg9hhX41fj2oxYHs1S-n6j4tNXy2+DwWA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Adrien W. de Croy" <adrien@qbik.com>
Cc: Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>, "ietf-http-wg@w3.org" <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Adrien W. de Croy <adrien@qbik.com> wrote:
>
> We see this problem a lot at the gateway.  We have processing agents that
> only want to process say text/html, and really don't like getting streamed
> MP4s labelled as text/html by some brain-dead server
>
> But in the end, where does the server get the C-T from?  Most just do a map
> lookup on file extension.
>
> Even if we tried to push the meta-data into the resource itself, so it could
> be specified by the actual author (think about the hosted site, where the
> site maintainer has no control over content types the server will send, or
> not easily), then how do we trust that information?  Some attacker can label
> whatever content as whatever type if they can find some purpose to do so.
>
> In the end, I think it basically makes Content-Type largely unreliable.  I
> don't see this changing with 2.0 (at least not properly), unless we
> introduce the concept of trust - either sign content by someone vouching for
> its type, or run RBLs of known bad servers.
>
> Do we even need C-T if clients are sniffing anyway?

It's certainly used in an essential way in the web browser security
model.  In any case, I'm pretty sure this discussion is getting
off-topic.

Adam


> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Larry Masinter" <masinter@adobe.com>
> To: "ietf-http-wg@w3.org" <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
> Sent: 29/07/2012 3:01:08 a.m.
> Subject: RE: Straw-man for our next charter
>>
>> The sniffing I was in particular hoping to stop is content-type sniffing.
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-websec-mime-sniff-03
>>
>> " Many web servers supply incorrect Content-Type header fields with
>>  their HTTP responses.  In order to be compatible with these servers,
>>  user agents consider the content of HTTP responses as well as the
>>  Content-Type header fields when determining the effective media type
>>  of the response."
>>
>> If browsers suddenly stopped sniffing HTTP/1.1 content, it would break
>> existing web sites, so of course the browser makers are reluctant to do
>> that.
>>
>> However, if it was a requirement to supply a _correct_ content-type header
>> for HTTP/2.0, and no HTTP/2.0 client sniffed, then sites upgrading to
>> HTTP/2.0 would fix their content-type sending (because when they were
>> deploying HTTP/2.0 they would have to in order to get any browser to work
>> with them.)
>>
>> Basically, sniffing is a wart which backward compatibility keeps in place.
>> Introducing a new version is a unique opportunity to remove it.
>>
>> The improved performance would come from having to look at the content to
>> determine before routing to the appropriate processor.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Amos Jeffries [mailto:squid3@treenet.co.nz]
>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:53 PM
>> To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: Straw-man for our next charter
>>
>> On 28/07/2012 6:39 p.m., Larry Masinter wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> re changes to semantics: consider the possibility of eliminating
>>> "sniffing" in HTTP/2.0. If sniffing is justified for compatibility
>>> with deployed servers, could we eliminate sniffing for 2.0 sites?
>>>
>>> It would improve reliability, security, and even performance. Yes,
>>> popular browsers would have to agree not to sniff sites running 2.0,
>>> so that sites wanting 2:0 benefits will fix their configuration.
>>>
>>> Likely there are many other warts that can be removed if there is a
>>> version upgrade.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Which of the several meanings of "sniffing" are you talking about exactly?
>>
>> AYJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Received on Monday, 30 July 2012 00:12:28 GMT

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