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Re: PUT and DELETE methods in 200 code

From: mike amundsen <mamund@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 01:01:37 -0400
Message-ID: <BANLkTimy=Dkb1RpPL+dyYFY07zurA7UB9g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Cameron Heavon-Jones <cmhjones@gmail.com>
Cc: public-html@w3.org, public-html-comments@w3.org, ietf-http-wg@w3.org, Dominik Tomaszuk <ddooss@wp.pl>, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
Cam:

my comments are inline...

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 13:03, Cameron Heavon-Jones <cmhjones@gmail.com> wrote:
> Feedback on: Supporting PUT and DELETE with HTML FORMS @ 2011-04-04
>
> 1.2. Assumptions
>
> I think that DELETE requires the same support as PUT and POST. The requirement for this was posted to public-html-comments:
>
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/2011Apr/0020.html
>
> I would suggest that DELETE uses the same URI encoding rules as for GET by default, with the option of also being allowed to be encoded in the same enctypes as for PUT and POST. This will allow for a DELETE request using query parameters to be constructed through a form or, for the other enctypes, for the DELETE request to be embedded with configurable attributes.
>
> For example, it would be great to be able to generate a DELETE request to a uri like:
>
> <form action="http://example.org/user"” method=”delete” if-match="*">
>  <input name="hat-size" type="text" value="" />
>  <input type="submit" />
> </form>
>
> *** REQUEST
> DELETE user?hat-size=small HTTP/1.1
> Host: www.example.org
>

While I am not personally convinced of this approach for deletes, I've
added it to the document to make sure it's recorded for discussion.

>
> 4.4. Optional Added FORM Content-Types
>
> I'm not sure there is need to add JSON to form entypes. As JSON is javascript data format it could be expected that this be used only with XHR. Maybe a use case for  support would be if javascript were required to manipulate data prior to the request being sent, but then couldn't JS just create the JSON from the form itself?

Understood.

>
>
> 4.5. Optional Support for Prefer Header
>
> I don't think this is necessary, if Accept header is adhered to. Without knowing the full context the Prefer header was targeted at, I'm not sure i understand the need for it, especially in this context.

The Prefer I-D offers agents the ability to use settings such as
"send-no-content", "send-status-only", etc. when making requests. I
don't see a way to do this w/ Accept headers right now.

Again, I think this "Prefer" header is interesting for HTML.FORMS, but
not a pre-requisite for supporting PUT/DELETE.

>
>
> 4.6. Support for Atom-Style PUT/DELETE
>
> I would be inclined to remove any default application of etags. If the server has full access to etags (and full understanding), why can it not just apply to the form as or if required?

Understood. I, too, am not convinced of this option. However, GET
makes regular use of ETags already.

>
>
> cam
>
> On 04/04/2011, at 5:41 AM, mike amundsen wrote:
>
>> All:
>>
>> I've updated/reformatted the PUT/DELETE with HTML FORMS document[1]
>> with the following:
>> - Added "integrate w/ existing servers..." to the Goals section.
>> - Added "Binary Transfers" to the Scenarios section.
>> - Added Julian Reschke's query regarding exsting browsers handling
>> 201/202/204 response to the Handling Responses section.
>> - Added "Optional Added FORM Content Types", "Optional Support for
>> Prefer Header", and "Support for Atom-Style PUT/DELETE" to the "Other
>> Considerations" section.
>>
>> I think this reflects the key feedback from the last couple days.
>>
>> I've not had time to doing any research/testing on Julian's query
>> regarding current browsers' handling of 201/202/204 responses. I
>> figure browser folks can chime in here, eh?
>>
>> NOTE: I've cross-posted this to:
>> - ietf-http-wg
>> - public-html
>> - public-html-comments
>>
>> If this is overkill, let me know.
>>
>> [1]http://amundsen.com/examples/put-delete-forms/
>>
>> mca
>> http://amundsen.com/blog/
>> http://twitter.com@mamund
>> http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me
>>
>>
>> #RESTFest 2010
>> http://rest-fest.googlecode.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 17:48, mike amundsen <mamund@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> I've posted a document[1] that shows one way in which HTML FORMS can
>>> support PUT/DELETE w/o the need for plug-ins or scripting. It's a
>>> quick draft but I think it covers the basics.
>>>
>>> If this is not in the desired format let me know.
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] http://amundsen.com/examples/put-delete-forms/
>>>
>>> mca
>>> http://amundsen.com/blog/
>>> http://twitter.com@mamund
>>> http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me
>>>
>>>
>>> #RESTFest 2010
>>> http://rest-fest.googlecode.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 14:26, mike amundsen <mamund@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> Personally I'd like to see a concrete proposal how PUT and DELETE will work
>>>>> (examples with HTML and HTTP interaction). Right now it's totally not clear
>>>>> to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And *where* shod this activity happen?
>>>>>> - here
>>>> </snip>
>>>>
>>>> Makes sense to me; I'll work up a few examples of HTTP/HTML this
>>>> evening and post a link. If/when others do the same we can use them
>>>> all as references in any discussion.
>>>>
>>>> mca
>>>> http://amundsen.com/blog/
>>>> http://twitter.com@mamund
>>>> http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> #RESTFest 2010
>>>> http://rest-fest.googlecode.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 14:14, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>> On 01.04.2011 15:41, mike amundsen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see the bug has been re-opened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see there has been some discussion on public-html-comments regarding
>>>>>> PUT/DELETE[1].
>>>>>> I also note at least one suggestion in that thread was to discuss this
>>>>>> on the whatwg list[2].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the preferred way to proceed here?
>>>>>> - List concerns/reservations and deal with them as they come up?
>>>>>> - Draw up a straw man proposal (is there a standard format for this)?
>>>>>> - Some other process?
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I'd like to see a concrete proposal how PUT and DELETE will work
>>>>> (examples with HTML and HTTP interaction). Right now it's totally not clear
>>>>> to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And *where* shod this activity happen?
>>>>>> - here
>>>>>
>>>>> Here should be fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards, Julian
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 5 April 2011 05:06:35 GMT

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