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Re: Comments on draft-ietf-httpbis-p2-semantics-07

From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:41:54 +1000
Cc: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Message-Id: <F7416C38-7819-40BA-B083-AE1526D8E4DE@mnot.net>
To: Hugh Winkler <hughw@wellstorm.com>
Hi Hugh,

The sections you mention don't require the use of 201/202 in certain  
situations (such as uploading a file); rather they're just made  
available for use.

Furthermore, we can't really add new semantics (you say "clarify", but  
I think that's what you're asking us to do) to these status codes, or  
constrain them further, as that may make existing implementations non- 
conformant.

Cheers,


On 19/07/2009, at 8:36 AM, Hugh Winkler wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> There's a common use case HTTP has not addressed well: asynchronous
> file uploads. Many web browsers have "download managers", but none
> have "upload managers". Large file uploads are left to application
> developer, because browsers  have poor guidance from the spec on how
> they should interact with servers and intermediaries, during an
> asynchronous upload.
>
> Example problem:  My web form allows  the user to upload a file. My
> application will create a resource -- say, a PDF document -- from it.
> It might take my server 2 seconds or 20 minutes to do so. If my server
> can process the request quickly, it returns 201 Created, and sets the
> Location header to the URI of the new PDF. (And lots of web apps
> return 303 in this case). It might also return the PDF as the entity
> response. If my server must process the request asynchronously,
> HTTPbis semantics say I  should return 202 Accepted. In this case the
> server can return an entity that gives the current status, and links
> to a status monitor.
>
> First, notice that the in the asynchronous case HTTP suggests the
> entity should both give the current status and link to a status
> monitor. That's duplicative, and makes the user click again to go to a
> real status monitor. But it's the best we can do -- the UA POSTed to
> this URL. It cannot POST again just to get an updated status.
>
> Second, HTTP has not suggested sending a Location header as part of
> the 202 response. Although that might have been a good idea, it's now
> moot. Browsers have never followed Location headers in 2xx responses
> -- they just display the returned entity. Changing that semantic now
> could be harmful -- that understanding is baked into millions of web
> applications and browsers.
>
> In fact, the spec (HTTPbis 8.2.2 and 8.2.3) is out of sync with what
> web apps actually do. They do not return 202, display an entity
> showing a status requiring a user to click again. A typical webapp
> will return 303, redirecting the user to a page having the status
> monitor, saving the user a useless click.
>
> So, my first suggestion is that the first paragraph of 8.2.2 (201
> Created) ought  to be amended to suggest both 202 and 303 as
> appropriate responses.
>
> Now, in the case the server responds 303 to the POST,  no browser or
> other agent  is harmed. 303 is a common response to POST. The browser
> now does GET on the redirect URI. Ordinary web applications might
> return 200 and a status monitor entity. Other applications might
> return 202. After all, 202 is the "real" response to the original
> request -- and that is the meaning of the 303.  Furthermore, returning
> 202 in response to a GET suggests that if the UA does a GET on this
> URL later, the status could change to indicate the outcome of the
> original POST. In the example problem, a UA redirected in the response
> to the POST, to a status page  that returns 202, could GET that url
> until the status changes -- in the case of a successful PDF
> generation, either a 201 Created response, or another 303 or 302; in
> any case, the Location URI finally will contain the URL of the newly
> created resource.
>
> My second suggestion is that that sec 8.2.3 (202 Accepted) should
> elaborate on the meaning of 202 in response to GET. Up to now, 202 has
> seen limited use, and it's generally thought of as a response to POST,
> PUT, or DELETE. But as a response to GET, it should have this added
> meaning that the returned status code is likely to change in the
> future, so please try again.
>
> Clarifying these semantics could allow agents to take over a lot of
> the automation of asynchronous file uploads. Web browsers could have
> an "Uploads" window where you check the status of your uploads.  Web
> client libraries could also take over  automating this function from
> application code.
>
>
> Hugh
>


--
Mark Nottingham     http://www.mnot.net/
Received on Monday, 20 July 2009 03:42:34 GMT

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