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Re: Conformance Test for HTTP 1.1

From: Caveman <hoffmankeith@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:23:10 -0500
To: "Carl Kugler/Boulder/IBM" <kugler@us.ibm.com>
Cc: "Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net>, "Miles Sabin" <msabin@cromwellmedia.co.uk>, <http-wg@cuckoo.hpl.hp.com>
Message-ID: <LAW-OE33LmaA8xqy0yw00000c91@hotmail.com>
Carl,

Once we start doing any kind of compliancy checking we face the proverbial
"slippery slope".  What comes next?  Seperate tests for things that MAY be
done according to the specs?  Things that SHOULD be?

I think the best thing to do is stay out of the compliancy checking business
all together.

Thanks,

Keith



----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Kugler/Boulder/IBM" <kugler@us.ibm.com>
To: "Caveman" <hoffmankeith@hotmail.com>
Cc: "Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net>; "Miles Sabin"
<msabin@cromwellmedia.co.uk>; <http-wg@cuckoo.hpl.hp.com>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Conformance Test for HTTP 1.1


>
> >
> >I just want to put my two cents into this conversation:
> >
> >I think the idea of doing compliancy testing is great.  And the idea of
> >having one "check everything test" is also a good thought.  However, how
> do
> >we guarantee that the test scenarios created are actually following the
> >"specs"?
> >
>
> I was thinking along the lines of a script (or script fragment) for each
> MUST in the spec.  MUSTs are supposed to be verifiable, right?  All
> compliant implementations, regardless of manufacturer/developer, must do
> the MUSTs, right?   Using scripts makes it easy for people to inspect a
> script and correct it if it isn't according to spec.
>
> >I think this is something better left to outside agencies to address.
The
> >testing game tends to get to be too industry biased.  Whether
intentionally
> >or not you will see tests similar to this proposed one done and get
totally
> >different results depending on who does it.
> >
> >I know this actually sounds like a good argument to create a "standard
> >test", but in my opinion this leads the doorway too wide open to start
> >skewing the tests in favor of one manufacturer/developer vs. another one.
I
> >realize that there are currently many industry leaders involved in this
> >organization and they provide valuable insights.  However, they are just
> >involved in the CREATION of standards, not in judging the conformance to
> >them.
> >
> >In short, while this is a good idea with the best interests of everyone
in
> >mind, I think this is probably stepping outside of the charter of the
> >organization.
> >
> >-kh
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net>
> >To: "Miles Sabin" <msabin@cromwellmedia.co.uk>
> >Cc: <http-wg@cuckoo.hpl.hp.com>
> >Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 11:30 AM
> >Subject: Re: Conformance Test for HTTP 1.1
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I think proxies are the biggest target, because they're so hard to
> >implement
> >> correctly, and so much more complex. In my experience, there's a fairly
> >wide
> >> variance in how implementors choose to interpret the spec.
> >>
> >> Of course, once you do one for proxies, it's relatively easy to get
client
> >> and server test suites out of it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 10:24:14AM +0100, Miles Sabin wrote:
> >> > Mark Nottingham wrote,
> >> > > I've lately been considering starting discussion of
> >> > > development of something within the W3C, as it was involved
> >> > > in the development of the HTTP, and has an established
> >> > > history of developing similar tools (although I'm not sure if
> >> > > W3C can formally commit resources).
> >> > >
> >> > > If anyone has any thoughts about this, please share them,
> >> > > because I'd like to get this moving.
> >> >
> >> > This sounds like a fine idea (tho', as you say, it's an open
> >> > question whether or not the W3C would be able to commit
> >> > resources).
> >> >
> >> > Do you have any particular emphasis in mind: server, clients,
> >> > or proxies, or all equal weight on all?
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Miles
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Miles Sabin                       Cromwell Media
> >> > Internet Systems Architect        5/6 Glenthorne Mews
> >> > +44 (0)20 8817 4030               London, W6 0LJ, England
> >> > msabin@cromwellmedia.com          http://www.cromwellmedia.com/
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark Nottingham
> >> http://www.mnot.net/
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 10 October 2000 15:24:13 EDT

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