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RE: Last-Modified in chunked footer

From: Yaron Goland <yarong@microsoft.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:34:23 -0700
Message-Id: <11352BDEEB92CF119F3F00805F14F48503A1574F@RED-44-MSG.dns.microsoft.com>
To: 'Jeffrey Mogul' <mogul@pa.dec.com>, http-wg%cuckoo.hpl.hp.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com
X-Mailing-List: <http-wg@cuckoo.hpl.hp.com> archive/latest/4352
So said Jeffrey:
>(1) recipients MUST be able to deal with any
>content-dependent header in the trailer of a chunked

I think this makes a great discussion item, for HTTP/1.2


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jeffrey Mogul [SMTP:mogul@pa.dec.com]
> Sent:	Friday, September 05, 1997 3:25 PM
> To:	http-wg%cuckoo.hpl.hp.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com
> Subject:	Re: Last-Modified in chunked footer 
> I've been thinking about this issue for a few days.  My original
> message, discussing just the effects on proxies, was clearly
> insufficient; there are many user agents that want to see some
> of the headers before the entire message has arrived, so that
> (for example) they can start rendering HTML as it arrives.
> But I think we are running into a basic confusion between
> what is "necessary" and what is "fast".
> The original motivation for trailers was to allow a server
> that was generating content on the fly to send a header
> (e.g., Content-MD5) that could not be generated before the
> entire content.
> Similarly, the desire of a browser to see, say, Content-type
> at the beginning of a message is so that it can render the
> message "on the fly".
> And the analysis that I sent a few days ago looked at
> what a proxy would need to know in order to forward a response
> "on the fly", without having to first buffer it.
> Clearly, if a response is based on a static value, it seems
> preferrable (and easiest) if the server puts the headers before
> the content.  The trickier question is for dynamically-generated
> responses.
> In many (most) cases, any implementation (server, proxy, or client)
> could, in principle, buffer the entire message so that it
> would not be handled on the fly.  While this would certainly
> add latency (perhaps unacceptable latency), it would not force
> incorrect behavior.  (This assumes that the client *knows* that
> it needs to buffer the message, which is a separate issue).
> In some cases, however (such as an indefinitely long server push),
> it is actually impossible to buffer the entire response at any
> point.  In such cases, one clearly needs to put the headers
> before the content!  This would seem to preclude the use of
> Content-MD5 (and some forms of Digest Authentication?) in these
> cases.
> In all of the other cases of responses "generated on the fly",
> however, the question seems to be "who gets stuck having to buffer
> the entire message?"  If there are any header fields whose value
> depends on the value of the body, one end (at least) is going
> to have to do this.  It could either be the sender or the receiver;
> which one makes more sense?
> From a "correctness" point of view, the answer is "neither, if
> the recipient knows to expect trailers."  From an efficiency
> point of view, however, I think it's better to have the sender
> do the buffering, in most cases.
> The reason for this is, except in rare cases, it takes
> less time to generate the response at the server than it
> takes to transmit it over the network.  Therefore, buffering
> at the server means adding a relatively short delay before
> the client can start rendering the content.  Buffering at
> the client, on the other hand, means that one has to pay
> for the entire network latency for the entire response before
> any rendering can take place.
> Thus, in general, I would expect that server designers who
> want to minimize "user perceived latency" would be willing
> to buffer their non-infinite responses, if this is what it
> takes to add content-dependent headers in front of the content.
> However, this does not mean that we should force a server
> to buffer responses.  It may not be possible (the server
> may have limited resources, or the response may be indefinitely
> long).  This means that clients ought to have the ability
> to correctly (if belatedly!) render any response with any
> content-dependent header in the trailer.  (People have pointed
> out that the Vary header might possibly be content-dependent,
> but this header should never affect rendering.)
> What this boils down to is a version of the Robustness
> Principle ("be conservative in what you send, be liberal
> in what you accept").
> I would propose that the spec make what appears to be
> a contradictory set of requirements:
> 	(1) recipients MUST be able to deal with any
> 	content-dependent header in the trailer of a chunked
> 	encoding. 
> 	(2) senders SHOULD NOT put any headers in the
> 	trailer unless it is impossible to put the
> 	headers before the content, or unless the
> 	cost of putting the header before the content
> 	is larger than the expected network latency
> 	for transmitting the entire response.
> 	(3) The set of content-dependent headers may
> 	be extended in the future, but currently includes
> 		Content-*
> 		Expires
> 		Etag
> 		Vary
> 		Last-Modified
> 		Authorization
> 		AuthenticationInfo
> 	(and probably a few others that I'm missing).		
> It does seem reasonable to introduce a "hint" (i.e., non-mandatory)
> response-header, as suggested by both Maurizio Codogno and by
> Klaus wide, that tells the recipient "look in the trailer before
> rendering" (as in the Postscript "(atend)" comment).  Since I don't
> think we can successfully insist that all clients MUST delay rendering
> if they see such a header, it can only be a "hint", but at least
> it gives the client a chance to decide (based on user preferences?)
> whether to be cautious or low-latency.
> -Jeff
Received on Sunday, 7 September 1997 13:39:24 UTC

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