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Re: HTTP Session Extension draft

From: Jeffrey Mogul <mogul@pa.dec.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 14:22:03 MDT
Message-Id: <9507062122.AA00980@acetes.pa.dec.com>
To: Chuck Shotton <cshotton@biap.com>
Cc: http-wg%cuckoo.hpl.hp.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com
It turns out that Chuck Shotton and I are in perfect agreement.  He
just doesn't know it, because he's assumed that I'm a UNIX bigot.

    >Please tell me where I used the word "UNIX" in my message.  In fact,
    >absolutely nothing in my simulations is UNIX-specific.
    >The requirement that a TCP implementation maintain TIME_WAIT records
    >is part of the TCP specification.
    The assumption that thousands of TCP/IP connections are just laying
    around for use is definitely a Unix assumption. I didn't say
    anything about TIME_WAIT records, etc.
And I never assumed that "thousands of TCP/IP connections are just laying
around for use".  In fact, if you had read the paper I wrote, you would
have seen that I simulated a range of active-connection limits, between
10 and 1024 connections.

Offline, Chuck informs me that his server supports 50 connections,
and that some PC-based servers support "as few as 10".  Fine.  My
simulations show that with at most 32 active connections, using traces
from several servers, persistent-connection TCP can easily get a mean
of 2 or 3 URLs per TCP connection.  Median values were similar.
Even with just 10 active connections, the simulations show about 2
URLs per TCP connection.

So this whole debate is a non-issue.  Even Chuck's systems should
benefit, on average, from using sessions.

Of course, the simulations also show that if your system can support
hundreds or thousands of active connections, the results will be even
better.  But it's certainly not required.

    Unfortunately, I have to hop up on a stump occasionally and remind people
    not to take a Unix-centric view of the Web. Your message (unfortunately?)
    happened to be a good excuse for stump-hopping.

And I, unfortunately, have to hop up on a stump occasionally and remind
people that when experiments and simulations have already been done,
uninformed speculation is a waste of everyone's time.
    But the current HTTP model DOES support blocking requests that cannot be
    handled. That's what the "server busy" error code is all about. Clients are
    refused, and explicitly told how long to wait before retrying. However,
    client authors (Netscape) are slow to adopt this portion of the standard.

I'd forgotten about the "server busy" (I assume you mean 503, "service
unavailable") error code, in part because I haven't seen it used anywhere.
It's a shame that Netscape and other vendors haven't provided support,
but I think it's an uphill battle.  On the other hand, TCP flow control
is inherent in the protocol; if we use that for overload protocol, we
are guaranteed that all clients will play by the rules.
    I'm not concerned about CPU cycles. I am concerned about idle TCP/IP
    connections. On a system with a finite number of connections, or with a
    finite amount of memory allocated for TCP/IP buffer space, allowing idle
    connections to hang around is a Bad Thing(tm).

If your TCP implementation uses the same amount of space to represent
a TIME_WAIT connection as it does to represent a open connection, the
"finite amount of memory" argument works in favor of persistent connections.
In fact, this is an even stronger argument than one based on the mean
number of URLs retrieved, for subtle reasons that I can explain if
anyone really wants me to (or just look at the simulation results).

If your TCP implementation is clever enough to represent TIME_WAIT
connections more efficiently, then the tradeoff may (or may not) be
the other way.  But I'd be surprised if anyone has done this.
    Efficiency of implementation, efficiency of resource utilization. Sorry, I
    wasn't specific. CPU and network efficiency are not the issues at hand.
    They can always be solved with bigger CPUs. There are fundamental limits in
    many IP stacks that limit other aspects of a HTTP implementation and the
    current connectionless model does a good job of supporting those limits.

The only fundamental limit is 300,000 KM/sec.  You cannot solve that
with a bigger CPU (unless the CPU is so much bigger that its network
interface is substantially closer to the client host!)  This is the
limit that we should be most cautious about, when defining a protocol
that may well last for a decade (unlike almost all of the hardware
and operating system versions, which will be obsolete quite soon).

So our main aim should be to avoid network round-trips.  That's
what this proposal is meant to do.

I would be surprised if vendors of TCP stacks were unable to provide
support for more TCP connections.  It's really just a small matter of
programming.  Maybe they just aren't getting the right feedback from
their customers.
Received on Thursday, 6 July 1995 14:28:30 UTC

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