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Re: Fwd: Registration of 6 charsets

From: Martin J. Duerst <duerst@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 19:14:30 +0900
To: Harald Alvestrand <Harald@Alvestrand.no>, ietf-charsets@innosoft.com
Message-id: <>
At 00/04/01 18:42 +0930, Harald Alvestrand wrote:
>Comments requested, if any.

See below.

>>Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:44:08 +0900
>>From: 太田昌孝 <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
>>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [ja] (Win98; I)
>>X-Accept-Language: ja,en
>>To: iana@iana.org, Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no
>>Subject: Registration of 6 charsets
>>Dear IANA and the IETF Charset Reviewer;
>>Please register 6 charsets:
>>     ISO-2022-JP-3
>>     ISO-2022-JP-3-plane1
>>     Shift_JISX0213
>>     Shift_JISX0213-plane1
>>     EUC-JISX0213
>>     EUC-JISX0213-plane1
>>described in draft-ohta-jcs-jis-x-0213-00.txt and give
>>appropriate MIBenum values.
>>draft-ohta-jcs-jis-x-0213-00.txt is a product of JCS committee of
>>JIS and is intended to be an RFC to give some description and a poiter
>>on the charsets.
>>After the assignment of the MIBemum values, I'll reflect it in the ID
>>and contact the RFC editor.
>>Summary of comments on the charsets in last December in
>>ietf-charsets@iana.org and my understanding on them are:
>>     There is no detailed description in English
>>         The current BCP does require published description
>>         but does not require it in English

I agree that there is no strict requirement; still it would be
a very good thing given the potential importance of these
registrations and their implementations. The RFC on iso-2022-jp
has helped implementation of Japanese mail,... a lot. If the
new RFC could contain the same descriptions, I'm sure it would
help the acceptance of the new standard a lot.

>>     Four of them are declared not suitable for use in MIME
>>         While it is not unclear when one should say "not suitable
>>         for use in MIME", one can automatically make a charset
>>         not shuitable for use in MIME by using some characters
>>         in the charset name, anyway

This is a completely confused comment. All of the registrations
are suitable for use with MIME, because all of them allow to
respect the CR/LF conventions of MIME. So this has to be changed
in the internet-draft/RFC.

>>     JIS X 0213 is not yet published
>>         It's content was publisedh by WWW and it is now available
>>         on papers.

JIS X 0213, for each of it's characters, lists the ISO 10646
equivalent. That's very nice for the characters that have equivalents
in ISO 10646.

However, JIS X 0213, for those characters that at present do not
have an ISO 10646 equivalent, also lists a value. These values
are given in parentheses. Some text in JIS X 0213 says that these
are not normative, but that's difficult to find for a Japanese
reader, and impossible for somebody not speaking Japanese.

Some of the values in parentheses may turn out to coincide
with the  values that will eventually (hopefully rather soon)
be assigned to these characters by the relevant groups, but some
of them definitely won't coincide.

Those values in parentheses are therefore a serious potential threat
to interoperability, and I consider it absolutely necessary that
both the RFC-to-be and the registrations themselves contain a very
clear warning on this issue.

>>     The charsets does not add significant functionality that is
>>     valuable to a large community
>>         JIS is Japanese Industrial Standard of Japan national body
>>So, I think there is no problem for the registration.
>>If you need a third party opinion on the charsets, I'd like to
>>recommend Prof. Jun Murai <jun@wide.ad.jp>, an author
>>on RFC1468 for ISO-2022-JP, for the opinion.

There is no doubt at all that a lot of work went into this standard,
and in terms of character selection, and in particular in terms of
Kanji selection, the result is excellent and very well based.

And there is now doubt that the things should be registered,
with the necessary precautions.

Some more comments on the Internet Draft itself below.

Regards,   Martin.

At 00/04/04 18:47 +0900, Martin J. Duerst wrote:
>INTERNET DRAFT                                                   M. Ohta
>draft-ohta-jcs-jis-x-0213-00.txt                Tokyo Institute of Technology
>                                                               K. Yasuoka
>                                                         Kyoto University
>                                                               K. Shibano
>                                      Tokyo University of Foreign Studies
>                                                             October 1999
>       Japanese Character Encoding on the Internet with JIS X 0213
>    This memo describes six MIME charsets: ISO-2022-JP-3, ISO-2022-JP-3-
>    plane1, Shift_JISX0213, Shift_JISX0213-plane1, EUC-JISX0213, EUC-
>    JISX0213-plane1 for Japanese text encoding on the Internet with
>    characters of ASCII, JIS X 0201, JIS X 0211, JIS X 0208 and JIS X
>    0213.
>    ISO-2022-JP-3 is the encoding for Japanese text and suitable for use
>    in MIME. ISO-2022-JP-3-plane1 is a subset of ISO-2022-JP-3.

The words 'the encoding for Japanese text' should be qualified.
It's not clear why it's 'the' and not 'a'.

>    Shift_JISX0213, Shift_JISX0213-plane1, EUC-JISX0213 and EUC-
>    JISX0213-plane1 are intended to be used internal to hosts or
>    applications and not suitable for use in MIME

As I have said before, this is wrong. 8-bit MIME has no problems
with them.
Received on Tuesday, 4 April 2000 06:15:31 UTC

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