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Re: [Tidy-dev] Re: Instructions for windows users?

From: Charles Reitzel <creitzel@rcn.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:31:51 -0400
Message-Id: <>
To: Arno Wouters <Arno.Wouters@knoware.nl>
Cc: Cory Nelson <phrosty@gmail.com>, html-tidy@w3.org, tidy-develop@lists.sourceforge.net, dsr@w3.org

Hi Arno,

Can you provide specific suggestions that you think would make the web page 
clearer?  For example, perhaps we should rename the link "Dave Raggett's 
Original" to "Dave Raggett's Introduction To Tidy".

Also, if you would like to make a windows installer for Tidy, that would be 
a great contribution.  Perhaps you could work something out with Corey, who 
is kindly keeping the Windows builds up to date?

I appreciate what you are saying.  It is hard sometimes for us 
bit-twiddlers to empathize with folks just trying to clean up a couple web 
pages. But you just can't be all things to all people.  My gut feeling is 
that folks who have trouble with the concept of copying executables into a 
directory "somewhere on their PATH" will have a hard time with any command 
line tool - including Tidy.  In fact, this is a large part of the 
motivation behind the Tidy library.  It has allowed many folks to build 
much more accessible front-ends to the core tool.

take it easy,

At 04:30 PM 7/11/2004 +0200, Arno Wouters wrote:
>Dave Ragget's page gives an excellent introduction to Tidy but that was 
>not what I was looking for. My problem was not how to *run* tidy, but to 
>*install* it: what files should I download and how do I install them? 
>Dave's pages refers to <http://tidy.sourceforge.net/> for this. I followed 
>the link and was completely at loss.
>Here are the thoughts that went through my head in an attempt to find out 
>what I should do:
>It seems as if this is a page for Unix geeks. Hmm, I see at least three 
>links to 'windows'.  Which one do I need? One of the links is labeled 
>'current version'. Of  course I need the newest version. But why do they 
>provide older versions? The current version is in a section 'other builds' 
>and it is said that it is currently unsupported, which sound as if one 
>should only use that one if one knows what one is doing, which I do not. 
>Moreover, it is manually build. This probably means that I have to compile 
>it myself. I have no idea how to do that. No, this is definitely not the 
>one I am looking for. Perhaps, I need an older version. But they say that 
>there are many bugs in it and that they recommend the latest version. Hm, 
>the page also says "If you don't find a pre-built executable version of 
>Tidy to download for your machine/OS in the tables below, look at the 
>links on the right side of this page for versions of Tidy provided by 
>various people."  I have no idea what pre-built executable's are and why 
>they refer to 'various people' but perhaps they simply mean to say "people 
>who do not know unix should choose one of the versions advertised at the 
>right page". The only place were windows is mentioned at the right page is 
>in connection with something called 'HTMLTrim' [With hindsight, this 
>turned out to be the right directory!] which is "a highly customizable 
>X(HTML)/XML pretty-printer and fixer for Windows ". XML? Pretty printer? 
>Fixer? This does not sound  as if it is what I am looking for. I need Tidy 
>not Trim.  Well let me just try the link, just to see if it helps. They 
>say "windows" after all.  Oops. Six files. They call them tidy, not trim. 
>Strange, but this sounds as if it is what I am looking for. Good!  Which 
>one(s) should I download? Do I need them all? I have no idea where to put 
>them. There is one, tidy-exe.zip, that says "get this if you're not a 
>C/C++ programmer" so that one I need definitely. But do I need the other 
>ones too? Perhaps, not, perhaps the .exe contains all others. No that is 
>not possible, the .exe is 126Kb, while the others are much bigger. But 
>surely I don't need the source code. So I guess I need (the .exe and 
>((tidy-lib and tidy-dll) or (tidy-lib-fast and tidy-dll-fast)). But I have 
>no idea were to put the libs and dlls. Or perhaps I do need the source 
>because that is the program that organises the other three. This is too 
>difficult for me. I better return to my work and just put the HTML files 
>generated by word on the web.
>At 10/7/04 11:40 -0400, Charles Reitzel wrote:
>>Excellent points, to which I usually respond:
>>Dave's Original: http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/
>>Tidy Doc Links:  http://tidy.sourceforge.net/#docs
>>Getting Started: http://tidy.sourceforge.net/docs/faq.html#what-now
>>Seriously, though, I have never seen fit to replace Dave's excellent 
>>exposition on how to run Tidy (link above).  It is aimed directly at HTML 
>>developers.  Imo, it is the best place to get started.
>>At 04:53 AM 7/9/2004 -0700, Cory Nelson wrote:
>>>Get the exe, copy it to your windows directory (or somewhere in your path).
>>>Open up a command prompt (start->run->cmd.exe) and run "tidy -h".
>>>The official tidy web page is excellent for programmers but not very
>>>friendly when it comes to html developers.  Considering 78% of the
>>>people visiting my binaries page get the EXE, I think it's high time
>>>for some redesigning.
>>>I can't change the official site but in the next few days I'll make my
>>>binaries page (above URL) friendlier to non-programmers.
>>>On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 11:52:05 +0200, Arno Wouters 
>>><arno.wouters@knoware.nl> wrote:
>>>>  Hello,
>>>>  I am a simple windows user who has to maintain some web pages and
>>>>  wants to use tidy to clean up the html produced by Word.  I happen to
>>>>  recall that an installer could be downloaded from
>>>>  <http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/>. Currently there is no
>>>>  installer on that page. Instead I was referred to
>>>>  <http://tidy.sourceforge.net/>. OOPS. That was a surprise! But not a
>>>>  nice one. I don't understand a word of that kind of talk about
>>>>  executable binaries, hash sums, compile farm executables, cvs
>>>>  sources,  hash table versions, libary wrappers and so on. I have no
>>>>  idea what to download and how to install it. Please could you either
>>>>  provide a simple windows installer or clear instructions in plain
>>>>  English about what to download and how to install it. Thanks!
>>>  >
>>>>  Arno
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"It's true that I've driven through a number of red lights on 
occasion.  But on the other hand, I've stopped at a lot of green ones but 
never gotten credit for it."

- Glenn Gould
Received on Saturday, 17 July 2004 11:15:26 UTC

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